Interview with James Glenday, ABC News Breakfast

James Glenday, Host: And as we just heard, the Prime Minister is heading to Indonesia today for his first overseas trip since his crushing election victory. The Foreign Minister, Penny Wong, is joining him, but before then, she's joining us from Parliament House in Canberra. Foreign Minister, welcome back to News Breakfast.

Penny Wong, Foreign Minister Good morning. Good to be with you.

Glenday: The first trip's always imbued with symbolism for a Prime Minister. Why Indonesia and what is on the agenda? What do you hope to achieve?

Foreign Minister: Indonesia was the first bilateral Prime Ministerial visit in the last term, and it's the first bilateral visit this term. And that reflects the importance Indonesia has for Australia, for Australian stability, for Australian security for our region. There is no country more important for Australia. So, we are very focused on making sure we continue the work we did last term to invest in the relationship and to strengthen it, keep strengthening it and going further.

Glenday: Is there something that you want to achieve, particularly on this visit and announce, or is this more about friendly symbolism?

Foreign Minister: Well, we'll continue to work on the issues we've been talking about. Our partnership in, on the economy, our partnership on trade, our partnership on investment, and of course, our defence relationship as well. Because as you might recall, we had in the last term the first ever defence agreement with Indonesia that Richard Marles signed. I think it was in August of last year. That was a big step, and we'll continue to build on that.

Glenday: Okay. I just wanted to go to trade. I know it's slightly outside your area, but Donald Trump's using trade deals as a tool of diplomacy. The UK has struck one with the US but a lot of analysts don't think it's a particularly good deal. Should Australia be putting a lot of effort into getting tariffs lifted, or should we just wait to see what Donald Trump's next move is?

Foreign Minister: Well, first, we will do what we think is the right thing to do in terms of Australia's national interests. How do we advance Australia's interests? How do we protect Australian interests in the context not only of the trade relationship, but more generally? The second point is actually you phrased the question in a really important way, which is trade is a tool of diplomacy. I think that is clear, self-evidently, including from what President Trump says – he envisages a very different role for America and the world, and his administration does as well. What we can do as Australia is to make the sensible decisions in our interests and importantly, to continue to develop our trading relationships with other countries as we did in the last term, I think you saw that. We'll continue that in this term.

Glenday: To another issue, the ABC has a story that an Australian labourer who's been fighting in Ukraine has died in the past few weeks. Have you seen those reports and do you know if they're true?

Foreign Minister: I'm always constrained in terms of these matters as a result of privacy, but I will just simply say, you know, that this is a very dangerous place to be and, you know, we are assisting, providing consular assistance to a family in relation to this matter.

Glenday: Okay. Do you have any idea how many Australians are fighting in Ukraine at the moment?

Foreign Minister: I don't have numbers on that, but I would say to people, I would strongly discourage that. We have a do not travel arrangement with Ukraine. I understand people feel strongly about this conflict, but this is not something the government would be supporting, that is Australians joining fighting in Ukraine.

Glenday: In Canberra yesterday, there were a lot of smiling faces. Ed Husic wasn't among them. Did you have a falling out with him over some of his comments that he made outside of Cabinet?

Foreign Minister: Look, I understand first why Ed is so upset. Anyone would be in these circumstances, you know, I understand. I understand it's been a very difficult period for him and, you know, we all share the concern about what is happening in Gaza. As I have said myself, there is a catastrophic humanitarian situation in Gaza and we would continue to say Israel must let aid in. That is what international law requires. We know how difficult it has been for the people of Gaza these last weeks and months and we continue to join with others to call on Israel to ensure that aid is delivered.

Glenday: Do you think he sailed pretty close to the wind in terms of breaching Cabinet solidarity during the last term of Parliament?

Foreign Minister: Look, I'm not going to get into commentary about that. I would simply say to you that I regard being in the Federal Cabinet and being the Foreign Minister of Australia is the honour of my life. It is a privilege and I take Cabinet conventions very seriously.

Glenday: Well, congratulations on being sworn back in again. Before I let you go, Penny Wong, Sussan Ley is the first woman to lead the Liberal Party. Like you, she's been in Parliament since the early 2000s, nearly the same length of time, in fact, do you have much of a relationship and do you have any advice for her?

Foreign Minister: First, I want to congratulate Sussan. It's a great honour to be asked to lead your party and it's an historic occasion to have the first woman lead the Liberal Party. That has never happened, and this matters. Obviously, we're in different houses and we haven't had portfolios where we engage with each other much. I saw her on the election campaign in Adelaide and went over and said, shook her hand and said hello – I didn't know at that point she was likely to be the next leader of the Liberal Party.

Glenday: There you go. Alright, well, enjoy Indonesia. And Penny Wong, thank you so much for joining News Breakfast.

Foreign Minister: Good to speak with you.