Karl Stefanovic, Host: More now on that breaking news out of the Middle East, where tensions are flaring after Israel launched strikes on senior Hamas leaders in Qatar
Sarah Abo, Host: To discuss, Foreign Minister Penny Wong joins us live now from Adelaide. Senator, good to see you this morning, thanks for joining us. So this was a brazen, audacious and calculated attack on a sovereign nation that's mediating, by the way, peace talks, as we know. Does it seem to you as though Israel just doesn't care about international law?
Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: We certainly think this was the wrong thing to do, because, as you said, it violates Qatar's sovereignty, and Qatar has also been the country that has been so involved in the negotiations for a ceasefire and the release of hostages, which is what we all want. It's a US ally. It's been working with the United States to try and bring about a ceasefire and the hostages’ release. So, we don't think this is the right thing to do, and I think the same sentiments have been expressed by the United States.
Stefanovic: Interestingly, Donald Trump has said the target was legitimate, but not the place. Given he's the only one who seems to have influence with the Israeli Prime Minister right now, does the US President need to do more?
Foreign Minister: Well, the US is the only country that can really work to bring about a ceasefire, and we are very supportive of their efforts to do that. We want to see that. We want to see hostages home. We want to see aid to flow. The fact that we have the sort of deprivation we see in Gaza as a consequence of policy decisions by an elected government, I think, has horrified the world.
Abo: The New Zealand Prime Minister, Penny, has gone so far as to say that Benjamin Netanyahu has lost the plot. Would you characterise it in such a way as well? What do you think the end game is here for the Israeli PM?
Foreign Minister: Well, I think that is a very good question, because so many countries around the world have said we want peace, we want a ceasefire. We know what is happening in Gaza. We understand where this war began with the horrific events on October 7, but after many, many months and so many civilian deaths, and so many calls from so many countries for hostage release and ceasefire, we simply are continuing to assert with the international community, to all sides, this is what needs to happen, this needs to end.
Stefanovic: Do you care that Hamas was taken out?
Foreign Minister: Hamas is a terrorist organisation, and we have consistently condemned them. They are a listed terrorist organisation. As I think the Americans have said, this is about trying to broker a ceasefire and hostage deal, and in those circumstances, it is a violation of sovereignty, it imperils the ceasefire, and it risks escalation.
Stefanovic: And in that area particularly, there was a lot of Australians in the area as well, and the threat of wider escalation now looms?
Foreign Minister: That's right. That is always the risk in the Middle East, isn't it – that we have not only what we see in Gaza, but the risk of regional escalation, which has been preoccupying regional countries and the rest of the world. And Qatar, obviously, it's, as I said, a US ally. It has not participated in this conflict. It is seeking to broker a ceasefire.
Abo: This undermines any kind of peace process, which seems it's completely out of reach at the moment, but Senator, while we have you, let's move on. Australia's bid to block China from gaining a security foothold in the Pacific has been dealt a blow. Is this Vanuatu deal now just dead in the water?
Foreign Minister: We'll continue to speak with Vanuatu and engage with them about the way forward. We think it's in both countries interest to have an arrangement which furthers development and furthers peace and security, but we understand there's obviously a lot of discussion that still needs to occur. I would make this point: we saw, under the Turnbull and Morrison governments, Australia as the partner of choice in the Pacific - we lost that opportunity because of neglect and because of climate change denial, which is so important to the Pacific. You would have seen, since we've come to government, how much work we've put into strengthening relationships with the Pacific. We'll continue to do that.
Stefanovic: Well, you've lost this one. It's a bit embarrassing, isn't it?
Foreign Minister: I think that they’re your words, not mine.
Stefanovic: How would you describe it?
Foreign Minister: I will describe this as two parts. One is, I would describe this as an ongoing dialogue with Vanuatu, and I would also say to you, we understand the circumstances that the Pacific faces, and we will keep working to develop strong relationships and to arrive at good understandings and arrangements with members of the Pacific family.
Stefanovic: You can't do anything right now about countries being bought by China?
Foreign Minister: Well, I have said very publicly Karl, we are in a permanent contest in the Pacific. That is the case. I think that Australia lost its opportunity for there not to be a permanent contest by the neglect of previous governments. We are not neglecting; We are actively engaged. And we recognise that Australian security is deeply tied to the economic and national security of the countries of our region, and we will respectfully continue to engage. And you've seen us do that patiently over four years, and we will continue to do it patiently and respectfully, as we have since we came to government.
Abo: When Vanuatu sits back and watches the military might of China on display though, that an Australian politician was at, by the way, it's not hard to understand why they would choose one way and not the other.
Foreign Minister: Well, you might be able to speak for Vanuatu, I don't choose to.
(fire alarm sounds)
(laughter)
Foreign Minister: I just want to say one thing; we're launching a Partying Safely Hub. We are doing it because of Bianca and Holly, who were tragically lost. Please look at it if you’re going overseas, thanks very much.
Stefanovic: You are a professional, Penny. We’ll give that a little bit of focus when the alarm stops, we’ll circle back to that and give you the latest on it. It’s not a warning about Albo’s shirt in the Pacific is it?
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Stefanovic: Good on you Penny, thank you.
Abo: A very important initiative, which we’ll highlight.