Anna Henderson, Journalist: Penny Wong thanks for joining SBS World News.
Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good to be with you.
Henderson: You met the Iranian Foreign Minister while you've been here at the UN. What were you trying to achieve by that face-to-face engagement?
Foreign Minister: We've had a diplomatic presence in Tehran since 1968 and obviously, as a consequence of the actions of the Iranian state, in particular the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, we made a decision to ask their Ambassador to leave Australia and to suspend our presence there. I thought it was important for me, face to face, to look him in the eye as my counterpart, and tell him why, and tell him very clearly that we believe that these actions crossed a line, and they were utterly unacceptable to Australia and to Australians.
Henderson: Can you demand any evidence from the Australian Government to support what ASIO has alleged?
Foreign Minister: What I made clear to him is that we have faith in the advice of our security agencies, and we act on that.
Henderson: You made a very significant move this week in terms of getting 100 countries on board with that humanitarian declaration. SBS has spoken to some, doctors in Gaza over the course of this week, and they told us they're seeing the consequences of the F-35s in hospitals as saying they are, quote, “shredding people”. Australia is part of the F-35 program. Do you think that's something that your government would review?
Foreign Minister: Well, first, can I just respond on the first point, which is the Declaration in Support of for the Protection of Humanitarian Personnel, which, as you know, was one of the things we determined to do after the tragic death of Zomi Frankcom, an Australian who was killed by the Israeli Defense Force, along with her colleagues from the World Central Kitchen, and I said, I made a promise that we will try and do something to ensure that this did not happen again, to work for that world. And I am very pleased that as a result of all of our effort, over 100 countries have joined together to sign the statement and to pledge action to ensure this does not keep happening and countries from as far away as Sierra Leone, Switzerland, Jordan, Indonesia, as well as Australia and beyond, and that really was an example of the power of multilateralism. In relation to the F-35 you've heard me talk about this, we are an F-35 country. Why are we an F-35 country? It is for Australian capability. So we are part of that supply chain where we supply to Lockheed Martin so that we can get critical capability for Australia.
Henderson: When you hear that kind of first-person account from the hospitals, though, does it give you pause for thought, perhaps, about petitioning the US about its arms trade with Israel?
Foreign Minister: It affirms my commitment to work as I am, for a ceasefire, to engage with Arab countries and others, Indonesia, Türkiye , other countries on calling for a ceasefire, pressing here for a ceasefire, for the hostages to be released. And importantly, it affirms my commitment, our commitment to recognition of Palestine as a critical aspect, critical part of peace, longer term peace, in the region.
Henderson: The government has spoken about the potential to have a home for the Palestinian people rebuilding Gaza. France has been talking about potentially contributing to peacekeeping forces. Is that something you think Australia is open to?
Foreign Minister: Look, what we've learned here in our engagement with France, the United Kingdom, Canada, Jordan, the UAE, the Saudis, all of the engagement here is that we want to work with other countries to maximise the prospect of peace, and I'm really pleased that this week, President Trump not only reaffirmed his commitment to ceasefire and peace in the region, but has also met with Arab countries and other countries such as Indonesia and Türkiye , to try and forge a plan for peace in the region.
Henderson: Could you foresee ever Australian boots on the ground?
Foreign Minister: We will work with other countries to try and contribute to peace. That's what we're doing here.
Henderson: In saying that, do you mean that other countries would lead that effort?
Foreign Minister: Well, hang on, I think this is entirely hypothetical. What I can say is you have seen Australia being willing to work with others to help contribute to peace. That is what people here are working on. Countries here working on, President Trump is working on, and we should all be focused on.
Henderson: Why don't you move to broader sanctions, like those on Russia, on Israel, beyond the two ministers currently being targeted?
Foreign Minister: You ask me this quite often, and I would make the point to you that sanctions work when they are done in concert with other countries, and that is why Russia, the sanctions on Russia, have been broad based, and they have been international. You would know that the sanctions we have placed on Israel have been with other countries, and we have sanctioned two Israeli ministers, as well as other entities. Now the reality is, there are, no other country has issued the sorts of sanctions that you refer to. What we need to do is work with others to have impact. We can't end this war alone, but we can do what we are doing, sanctioning together, recognising Palestine, calling for cease fire and release of hostages.
Henderson: Given what the UN has now found, what we are hearing from human rights groups, academic scholars, is this now a genocide in Gaza?
Foreign Minister: Well, Israel will be accountable to the world and to history, before international courts for its actions. What I would say now is that what is happening in Gaza is unacceptable. The deaths of children are unacceptable. The blockading of aid is unacceptable.
Henderson: In terms of the agreements that have yet to be signed in our own region, you've been criss-crossing the Pacific trying to get some deal in Vanuatu and PNG, do you have to shoulder some responsibility that we haven't got there with those two nations?
Foreign Minister: I think the first thing we should be aware of is that we lost the opportunity to be the only partner of choice in the Pacific under a Coalition government which neglected the Pacific and had its position on climate. And the fact is, action on climate is an entry ticket to engagement with the Pacific. That's the first point. Second, I think I've been very honest with the Australian people. I've said there is permanent contest in the region, and it is that permanent contest which is ongoing. What we have to do is be a partner that is respectful, that listens, that is patient and keeps engaging and will do.
Henderson: Are we going to see the COP31 in Adelaide?
Foreign Minister: I hope, I hope we can get an outcome with Türkiye that reflects what we want and what we want most is to make sure the Pacific has its voice heard. That was the really, the imprimatur and the impetus behind our commitment was to do what we have been doing internationally, which is to work with the Pacific to elevate their voices. Obviously, it's a tough negotiation. We've made some progress. I hope we can make more.
Henderson: You were in the room for Donald Trump's address to the UN General Assembly. He spoke about mass migration. He said countries are going to hell. Are you worried about that kind of rhetoric being repeated in Australia and affecting the multicultural nation that we have?
Foreign Minister: There two points. First, as I've already said publicly, and these are issues that President Trump has campaigned on. These are issues that President Trump has spoken about, both before his election and since with the American people. In terms of Australia's position, our multiculturalism is one of our great strengths. The fact that we have one-in-two of us born overseas or have a parent born overseas, that we bring to who we are all of this common ground with so much of the world, that we are able to be a unified and harmonious country is an enormous strength, and we will always hold on to that.
Henderson: What needs to come out of a Trump meeting in Washington, D.C., in terms of assurances?
Foreign Minister: Well, I'm sure that you and your colleagues will talk about this, but we're looking forward to the meeting. The Prime Minister is looking forward to the meeting. Obviously, he's had a number of warm conversations with the President. Obviously, it's very important for us that we have a conversation about what is happening in our region and the world that well, how our alliance can ensure that the sovereignty of our country and the sovereignty of the countries of the region can be assured and will continue to work on our interoperability and our defence capability.
Henderson: The President just had a 180 on Ukraine. Are you worried about that ability for him to really change his mind quite quickly on issues that will affect Australia?
Foreign Minister: I think the President, I welcome the President's comments on Ukraine, just as I welcome his commitment to trying to bring about peace in the Middle East and we look forward to the meeting.
Henderson: Do you think Donald Trump deserves the Nobel Peace Prize?
Foreign Minister: Well, what I can say is no one has been able to end this war in Gaza, and he is uniquely placed to be able to end the war in Gaza and to set the region on a path to peace and I hope he is able to do that.
Henderson: Foreign Minister, thanks for joining us.
Foreign Minister: Good to speak with you.