Sarah Ferguson, host: The Foreign Minister has been visiting other neighbours attending the ASEAN Summit in Kuala Lumpur this week. Foreign Minister Penny Wong joins me now. Welcome to the program, Foreign Minister.
Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good to be with you, Sarah.
Ferguson: Now, I want to quote from your speech today. You said that we are seeing “the worrying pace of China's nuclear and conventional military build up”, that China's objective is to change the balance of power in the region. How imminent is the danger for Taiwan?
Foreign Minister: Look, I gave that speech as part of a discussion with our friends in Southeast Asia, in ASEAN, about the importance of us working together. And I talked about the importance of a region where no country dominates, and no country is dominated. A region where, as I described it, there is a balance of power, which of course requires continued U.S. engagement. So, you know, our position is we continue to work for that region, a region with a power that is in balance, where no country dominates and no country is dominated. I'm sorry about the wind Sarah, it just blew up.
Ferguson: You can't do anything about the wind. But I just want to stay with that idea for a minute. You're quite specific in your language, you're talking about the worrying pace of China's nuclear and conventional military build-up. What is that nuclear and conventional military build-up aimed to achieve?
Foreign Minister: This is not, this is not a new articulation. I think you'll find certainly in the context of the Defence Strategic Review and what Minister Marles, what Richard has said, the Deputy Prime Minister has said over a period of time, it is the same proposition. You know, we've been clear about that, and we've also been clear about how we respond to that. And we respond to that by working with other countries, by working with the United States, our principal strategic partner, by working with Quad countries, including particularly Japan, by working with India, and by what we do – we want to contribute to both deterrence and reassurance in order to prevent conflict and preserve peace.
Ferguson: Now, at the same time, the Prime Minister recently and you today, in the speech that I just referred to, you've both made a point of underlining Australia's independence from the U.S. How will those messages be heard in Washington?
Foreign Minister: What I said in today's speech was, was very clear. I said we are a proud trading nation. Our markets will remain open. Our markets will remain open to the countries of Southeast Asia, our second largest trading bloc. We will continue to adhere to our free trade agreements, and in fact, we will strengthen them, and we will do all of that because that is in the interest of Australian jobs and Australian prosperity. We are a great trading nation. We know that our economic strength in great part depends on our capacity to trade. So, my message very clearly to this audience was that we will continue to trade with you. It's in your interests and it's in our interests.
Ferguson: At the same time, you parse your words incredibly carefully. So, I'm interested in the repetition of the message from you and the Prime Minister about Australia's independence. So, the question is not so much the audience today, but what the audience in the United States, considering AUKUS at the moment, what they will make of those messages.
Foreign Minister: I was very clear when I was in the United States to repeat the same messages that we repeated in fact during the election campaign when the Trump administration first imposed tariffs. We said then, and we continue to say we think tariffs are unwarranted and unjustified. We believe they are an act of economic self-harm. We will not be responding in kind, and we in these markets, I'm here in Kuala Lumpur, we will continue to keep our markets open because it is in the interest of Australians and their incomes and their jobs for us to continue to trade with the countries of the world and to, in fact, grow our trading relationship, our economic relationship with Southeast Asia. China is our largest trading partner, the countries of Southeast Asia are our second largest. Now we need to continue to invest in expanding that economic relationship because it's in the interest of our prosperity, Australian prosperity. It's also in the interests of the stability of the region.
Ferguson: But a question about that free trade. Is free trade with China on artificial intelligence permanently off the table?
Foreign Minister: Look, I've seen reports of the Ambassador's comments about this, and I've seen the Prime Minister's response. Obviously, we will determine what we want to include in any free trade agreement with China, we have a free trade agreement in place. We think it's working well. Of course, we from time to time with other countries will periodically review those agreements. But we'll also look at, always look at any agreements from the perspective of Australia's national interests.
Ferguson: Our political editor, Jacob Greber just raised the case in his package before this. The situation with Dr Yang Hengjun. Is there anything that, sorry – is there anything the Prime Minister can do on this trip to secure his release?
Foreign Minister: Well, what I would say to you is what I have consistently said. We continue to advocate for Dr Yang. We continue to speak with the Chinese authorities at all appropriate levels, including from me to Foreign Minister Wang Yi. We continue to make representations on his behalf. We would like to see Dr Yang united with his family.
Ferguson: Just one question on the Middle East, Foreign Minister. How would you describe the Israeli government's plan to move 600,000, just to begin with, 600,000 Palestinians to a camp in Rafah?
Foreign Minister: Look, the situation in Gaza is awful. It's horrific. The humanitarian situation is catastrophic. Australia has long been a part of the international call for ceasefire. We continue to do that. We continue to advocate for the release of hostages, and we continue to advocate for aid to flow unimpeded. We joined a statement by many other countries, I think some 22 other countries to that effect some time ago, and we repeat that call today.
Ferguson: Foreign Minister, thank you very much indeed for joining us.
Foreign Minister: Good to speak with you.