Sarah Ferguson, Host: Foreign Minister Penny Wong was at the General Assembly for the speech. Penny Wong, welcome to 7:30.
Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good to be with you.
Ferguson: On the October meeting that will take place between the Prime Minister and the President, after the President's speech at the UN, what sort of excruciating diplomacy will have to take place for the Prime Minister to present himself as a friend and staunch ally of someone who holds such diametrically opposing views?
Foreign Minister: Well, first I would make the point that we do welcome the fact that the meeting has been scheduled, and the United States is Australia's most important strategic partner. We have a long-standing strategic relationship, a long-standing alliance, and that alliance has stood the test of time with various incumbents in the Oval Office and various Australian Prime Ministers, and it will continue to do so. In terms of President Trump's speech, I was there for it, as I was for his inauguration speech and what I would say to you, Sarah, is two things. The first is, the content of his speech is really the same sorts of things that President Trump has been speaking about to the American people prior to his election and since. The second point I would make is that obviously there are issues where Australia has a different view, and I think your viewers would know what those issues are.
Ferguson: How do you prepare for a face-to-face meeting with the most powerful but also the most capricious leader in the world?
Foreign Minister: Well, I'll leave you to engage in those sort of adjectives. What I can tell you is how I go about preparing for meetings, and obviously they're not at leader level, they're at Foreign Minister level, is to focus very much on what Australia's national interests are and how we best advance them. I mean, that is overarching the objectives of every meeting we engage in, and sometimes it's on smaller details and on other issues it’s obviously on larger points.
Ferguson: Amongst the most outrageous things that President Trump said during his speech, of course, were about climate change, calling it, variously, a green scam, a hoax. How does the world regain momentum on climate change when the leader of the world's most powerful economy says that it is a con job?
Foreign Minister: Well, as I've said to you already, these are issues where President Trump has been very consistent. His position has been clear. Australia does take a different view. We accept the reality of climate change. We see it in our lives, and we believe in the importance of changing, transitioning our economy to operate in a world of net zero. We believe that renewable energy is the cheapest new form of installed energy, and we will continue to transition our economy, and I think we had a very clear mandate from the Australian people at the last election to continue to ensure that Australia is a clean energy superpower.
Ferguson: You’ve just met with the Iranian Foreign Minister, I understand. Did you discuss further their involvement in antisemitic attacks in Australia?
Foreign Minister: I thought it was the right thing to do to meet directly with my counterpart and to look him in the eye and tell him precisely why we made the decisions we made and why, what we believe, has occurred. I've made it very clear that the actions of the IRGC crossed the line, that they were unacceptable, and that Australia was compelled to take the action we took. I made that very clear to him, and I thought that was the right thing to do in the context of all we know that has occurred.
Ferguson: Did he make any attempts to deny the involvement of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps of Iran in those attacks in Australia?
Foreign Minister: I think you would anticipate some of how the Iranians would respond. I made very clear what I've made clear publicly, which is that Australia, the government, has confidence in the advice of our security agencies and we acted upon it.
Ferguson: So, he did push back on the facts, the reasons why he was expelled, that is their involvement in those attacks?
Foreign Minister: Obviously, you wouldn't expect them to accept these assertions. I made clear we accept the advice; we have confidence in the assessments of Australian security agencies. On that basis, Iran crossed a line that was unacceptable to Australia and to Australians.
Ferguson: Members of the Israeli government yesterday called for countermeasures in response to Australia's decision, along with France, the UK and Canada, to recognise a Palestinian state. Those countermeasures would include annexing the West Bank and crushing the Palestinian Authority. Could the decision on recognition lead to even more drastic action from the Israeli government?
Foreign Minister: Well, I think the world is seeing the extent to which the Netanyahu Government seems to be prepared to go to avoid a ceasefire and peace, and if those actions are taken, I think that will confirm that. We all want a ceasefire. We all want the hostages returned, and we want a pathway to peace. What is happening in Gaza is unacceptable.
Ferguson: Are you saying the Israeli government does not want a ceasefire in order to continue its operations in Gaza?
Foreign Minister: Well, I'm saying if the hypothetical threats that you are putting to me are carried out, I think that would be the conclusion the world would draw. The reason we have recognised, alongside the United Kingdom and Canada, a Palestinian state, is because simply this, the Palestinian people deserve a state. And we believe it's in the interests ultimately also of Israel that there will not be long-term peace and security in the region without there being a Palestinian State.
Ferguson: If Israel does not want a ceasefire, what do they want to achieve in Gaza and the West Bank?
Foreign Minister: Well, you'd have to ask the Netanyahu Government those questions, what their motivations are.
Ferguson: What is your observation? You're looking very closely at the decisions that they're taking, the way they're responding to the international community. What is your assessment?
Foreign Minister: Well, what I would say to the Netanyahu Government is that the international community is increasingly speaking with one voice. That the international community has, on an overwhelming basis, called for a ceasefire. We saw President Trump this morning my time, overnight Australian time, say that there should be a ceasefire, that the violence has to stop. So, I would say to the Israeli government that they should ensure that there is a ceasefire, and I would say to Hamas, you should, we call again for the unconditional release of hostages. But beyond the ceasefire, what we want is longer term peace, and that is what we are engaging in here and that is what recognition is about. It is about a pathway to longer, to peace and stability in the region, and that is why you are seeing so many countries move.
Ferguson: How can there be progress towards an actual sovereign state for Palestine where Netanyahu is continuing to say there will be no Palestinian state?
Foreign Minister: Well, this is precisely one of the reasons why countries like the United Kingdom, Canada and Australia have moved. If you come to the view, and I think the broader international community is of this view, that the long-term security and peace, for the people of Israel and the people of Palestine will only be resolved through the existence of two states, and you see what is happening in Gaza, then you feel compelled to act now, and we have. Now we can't, Australia can't end the war alone. What we can do is work with others to maximise pressure to try and provide momentum for peace and that is what we are doing.
Ferguson: Penny Wong, thank you very much indeed for joining us. Thank you.
Foreign Minister: Bye bye.