Television interview with Kieran Gilbert, Sky News Australia

Kieran Gilbert, host: Now, for more reaction I caught up with the Foreign Minister, Penny Wong, on a range of issues, including the government's previous comments via the Prime Minister and others when it comes to Donald Trump. Penny Wong, thanks so much for your time.

Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good to be with you.

Gilbert: The Prime Minister said that the prospect of Donald Trump, or when he was President, scared him. How's he going to navigate that now that he's back in the White House?

Foreign Minister: First, we congratulate President Trump on his election, look forward to working with him. And this is an historic alliance - shared friendship, shared values, shared strategic objectives. I think you've seen in terms of Prime Minister Albanese his ability to work with people, to work with others as Prime Minister. He's certainly been a very energetic Prime Minister in terms of engagement in Australia's interests with other leaders, and I'm sure you will see that as well with President Trump.

Gilbert: And it's bigger than two – the individual, isn't it?

Foreign Minister: Well, look, that's right. I mean –

Gilbert: It's bigger than the two leaders. So, what about Kevin Rudd? That's an option as well. Do you have a plan B In case Mr Trump refuses to deal with him?

Foreign Minister: Kevin has been an outstanding ambassador and I'm confident will continue to be so. And one of the hallmarks of his tenureship thus far has been his delivery of reforms and changes with the support of both Republicans and Democrats and his ability to work with both sides of the aisle in Washington. We've seen that with the delivery of the legislation on AUKUS. So, I have confidence, continued confidence in Kevin. 

But you started the question by saying it's bigger than two individuals. It is. I mean, this is an alliance over many decades. It's based on our history, what we've done together, our democratic values, but also our shared objectives for this time.

Gilbert: Lara Trump, who's very close to Donald Trump, his daughter in law, she raised concerns about Kevin Rudd staying in the role. Do you have a plan B?

Foreign Minister: Well –

Gilbert: Because if the President doesn't work with our Ambassador – you've said it's bigger than individuals.

Foreign Minister: Yeah. And I think it is bigger than individuals. And I think, look, this is a time where we really do need to work together. And, you know, I think Joe Hockey had a pretty good comment about this, you know, a few months ago where he said, you know, it's not about Liberal, Labor, or Green. It's about, you know, putting Australia first. When it comes to Mr Rudd or Ambassador Rudd or all issues when it comes to the Alliance.

Gilbert: Mr Rudd, though, just to clarify, he had tweets up as recently as two days ago saying that Donald Trump was a traitor. These were historical tweets.

Foreign Minister: These are historical tweets.

Gilbert: But he hadn't pulled them down as of two days ago.

Foreign Minister: Well, what I'd say to you is I look at the relationships that Kevin has forged with both sides of the aisle, and I think, really, Kevin, you know – Mr Richardson, Dennis Richardson, former head of Defence and former head of Foreign Affairs, former Ambassador to the United States, did make a very good point about this is not the time for partisanship and that people engaging in that really undermine Australia's interests. I'm paraphrasing him. You know, this is – look, this is going to be a time of change. Donald Trump, President Trump has made that clear. He campaigned on change, and so we shouldn't be surprised if there is change. But we should be confident. We should be confident in ourselves. We should be confident in our ability to work together to progress Australia's interests.

Gilbert: The Greens are saying you should use the opportunity to scrap AUKUS.

Foreign Minister: Well, the Greens have never supported AUKUS, and the Greens remain, frankly, a fringe party that expresses very irresponsible views when it comes to Australia's national security.

Gilbert: Well, they're saying that Donald Trump will be a threat to democracy for women, for people of colour, for the LGBTQI community, for the climate.

Foreign Minister: Oh, well –

Gilbert: They're scathing across the board.

Foreign Minister: Well, I don't take –

Gilbert: Do you think many Australians would agree with that?

Foreign Minister: Well, first, I don't think any of us think we'll be safer or more secure in the world by taking advice from the Australian Greens. But let's go through some of the issues. The Greens oppose AUKUS. AUKUS is about securing the peace. It is about having a capability for decades to come that enable us to keep Australia secure. It is about keeping the peace. And let's remember AUKUS, this partnership between three nations, which will span decades and span many governments and many individuals – it is about working together. Delivering the submarines, as I said, is about delivering an Australian sovereign capability that helps keep us safe.

Gilbert: On climate, are you worried about that? The fact that Donald Trump will pull out, or do you think that there's already enough momentum internationally to make progress?

Foreign Minister: Well, I don't think the climate issue is going to go away. And just as in 2017, when former President Trump, on his first term – when America, the US exited the Paris Agreement, Australia didn't. Now we’ll continue to be part of the global response on climate change. And remember, Kieran, there's two imperatives. There's climate and trying to make sure we lessen the consequences of climate change now, which we are already seeing, but also for our children and our grandchildren. But there's also an economic imperative. You know, we know that we want an economy that can thrive not just in this world, but in a world which is moving to net zero. And so many major economies are doing that. We want to be competitive in that world, and that means transitioning our economy, and that’s what the government's doing.

Gilbert: So you crack on regardless of the Trump position?

Foreign Minister: Well, absolutely. Climate hasn't gone away. You know, just as in 2017, Australia stayed the course, we'll stay the course.

Gilbert: When it comes to Ukraine and the prospects for Kyiv, will you back in the Trump approach if he does get a deal with Russia?

Foreign Minister: On any of these issues we will look to Australia's interests and what Australia believes in, what our interests are, and what we can do with others. Whether it's on trade, on climate or in relation to Ukraine.

Gilbert: And when it comes to China, what are your thoughts in terms of how Beijing responds to this? President Xi has already spoken to Donald Trump and congratulated him. Do you see the transactional approach of Trump potentially saying, doing a grand deal and saying, have Taiwan and let's be done with it.

Foreign Minister: Well, I'm certainly not going to get into those sorts of hypotheticals. What I would say is the relationship between the US and China, the relationship between the two great powers, does have great consequence for the whole world. We know that regardless of who – you know, whether it's under President Biden or under President Trump, America sees that China is a competitor as the other great power. And you know, there are going to be different policies at times about how they deal with that relationship. We have our principal strategic relationship with the United States, we have our principal economic relationship with China. This has been the case for many years. And so navigating that is what Australian governments have to do, and you've seen what this government has done when it comes to navigating maturely and confidently the relationship with China.

Gilbert: A couple of other ones before you go. It's a lot to get across, but on the Middle East, Donald Trump a very strong supporter of Israel. Is there an inherent tension now between the US approach and ours, given that?

Foreign Minister: We have taken the view, along with the majority of the international community and the majority of our like-mindeds, that adherence to international law is the central principle when it comes to the conflict in the Middle East. It is a tragic conflict. We know its history in the abhorrent acts of Hamas. We know also the catastrophic loss of life we have seen in Gaza and the catastrophic humanitarian situation we see there. So, Australia has a principled position. I know that people have different views about it, but we will continue to advocate for and articulate that principled position.

Gilbert: And you feel that there's international support behind that as well, regardless of what happens in the White House?

Foreign Minister: Well, I think countries will make their decisions about how to approach this, but I think the overwhelming majority of the international community has been broadly in the same place. Ceasefire – security for Israel and ceasefire, return of hostages, and the delivery of humanitarian assistance.

Gilbert: Finally, we were critical of Donald Trump back in the last election when – there were many people critical of him in his response to the result yesterday. Kamala Harris didn't address her supporters, didn't give a speech conceding. Was that ungracious?

Foreign Minister: I understand the Vice President will be addressing her supporters soon. I see that on one of the screens here. And I'm sure that that'll be an important moment for her, for her supporters, and for the democracy. But the American people have spoken and it was an emphatic victory for President Trump.

Gilbert: It was an emphatic victory across the Senate and the House. Wouldn't it have been better to get out on the night and – isn’t that –

Foreign Minister: I'm not going to be drawn on Vice President Harris’ speech. I think she's speaking shortly. It's an important moment for her, as I said. But the democracy has spoken.

Gilbert: Foreign Minister, thanks. Appreciate it.

Foreign Minister: Great to be with you.