Sarah Ferguson, Host: The Foreign Minister Penny Wong joined me earlier from Suva in Fiji as news broke of the impending missile test. Penny Wong, welcome to 7:30.
Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good to be with you.
Ferguson: Is the Chinese government's announcement that they will test a long range nuclear capable missile in the South Pacific a direct response to Australia signing a defence alliance with Fiji?
Foreign Minister: First, I'd say that it's up to the Chinese government to speak to their intent. What I will say is that we regard this as destabilising to the region. The Pacific Island Forum leaders have made clear they want the Pacific to be an ocean of peace. We regard this proposed test as counter to that. On a day when Australia and Fiji have announced not only are we Vuvale or family, we are also allies and we will work together to ensure that the Pacific is an ocean of peace and that the countries of the Pacific can make our own future.
Ferguson: So, you accept that it's a highly intimidatory response to the signing of the treaty.
Foreign Minister: As I said, I will leave it to China to speak to its intent. What I will say very clearly is we regard this, one, as destabilising, and two, as counter to the vision of the Pacific that has been articulated very clearly by Prime Minister Rabuka and other Pacific leaders.
Ferguson: Will you communicate that to the Chinese government?
Foreign Minister: You should anticipate that we will always press for Australia's interests and express our views to China. You might recall I did precisely that when I met with Foreign Minister Wang Yi most recently.
Ferguson: And will you have a specific conversation with the Chinese Foreign Minister about this missile test and the message that it sends?
Foreign Minister: We have consistently made those representations and will continue to do so. And the reason we will make those representations and have done is because we do want the Pacific to be an ocean of peace. We do want transparency and reassurance. And we have, we are, we see this test as running counter to those objectives.
Ferguson: Have you discussed this already with the Prime Minister? And what is his view?
Foreign Minister: Well, I'll let the Prime Minister speak for himself, but I can indicate what I said earlier is the Australian government was advised today of China's intention to conduct this test.
Ferguson: You've said on a number of occasions that Australia is in a permanent contest with China for influence in the Pacific. Does the alliance with Fiji give Australia now the upper hand in that contest?
Foreign Minister: I have described a permanent contest in the Pacific and I have said China will continue to assert its interests and Australia and the countries of the Pacific will continue to work together to assert our interests. We are really grateful for Fiji's leadership. It was Prime Minister Rabuka and Fiji who first proposed that the Vuvale Partnership become a treaty. And it was Prime Minister Rabuka and Fiji who first proposed that we enter into an alliance. And you will recall this is only our fourth alliance. Obviously, the United States and New Zealand, then the historic Pukpuk alliance with Papua New Guinea, and now today, the Ocean of Peace Alliance with Fiji. Now what this demonstrates is countries of the region taking responsibility for assuring the peace and stability of the region.
Ferguson: So, you're not disputing that this is about pushing back on China, seeking to expand its influence in the Pacific.
Foreign Minister: China will continue to do what great powers do. It will continue to assert its interests. I've made that clear to Australians. But I always think it's better for us to focus on what we are for. This is about the region we want. This is about us taking responsibility, acting together to assure the region we want. That is what we are doing. That is what Australia is doing with partners in the Pacific.
Ferguson: At the same time, with this test that the Chinese have announced, is this also a heavy handed demonstration by the Chinese that their weapons have the capacity to reach both into the Pacific but also to mainland Australia?
Foreign Minister: What I'd say is it's destabilising and in an era where we see contest and competition, the destabilising acts can lead to miscalculation, can lead where we do not want these actions to lead. So, I think China is aware of Australia's position and I hope is aware of the view of the Pacific Islands Forum on these issues. They've made, the Pacific leaders have made, their views very clear in relation to these sorts of tests.
Ferguson: So, China is making the region a more dangerous place with this test?
Foreign Minister: Certainly destabilising and it's certainly contrary to what the Pacific has articulated.
Ferguson: This is the second mutual defence alliance that Australia has signed this year, after Papua New Guinea. Would a network of defence alliances across the Pacific be considered by the Chinese as threatening to their interests?
Foreign Minister: Again, Sarah, I'll leave it to you to ask the Chinese what their intention is. I can tell you what ours is. We want a Pacific where, but the security is provided within the Pacific Islands Forum. The reason we want that is we believe that enables greater stability. That is the view that the Forum leaders have made very clear. And we are acting in recognition that in a time of more contests, more competition, more disruption, the region has to work together to assure our own peace and stability.
Ferguson: What other countries do you anticipate could join this alliance?
Foreign Minister: Well, obviously that's always a matter, these are sovereign choices and it's a matter for other countries to determine you know, what their sovereign choice is. As I said to you earlier, we were, you know, we acknowledge and respect the leadership of Fiji in making a decision to seek treaty status for our Vuvale Partnership and to seek an alliance, a mutual defence alliance of the sort that we now have. It is an historic moment for both our countries.
Ferguson: And yet you must have a clear idea who those countries are because you put, actually put the wording into this treaty that there could be other countries who could join this alliance. So, who did you have in mind by inserting those words?
Foreign Minister: You're correct. There is what we call an accession clause in the, in the treaty. And, you know, obviously that is architecture that is there if people wish to utilise it. One of the key points I would make is that only a select number of countries in the Pacific have a defence force and Fiji is one of them. And the relationship between the Fijian Defence Forces and Australian is long standing and very close.
Ferguson: When will you speak to the Chinese to express those views that you have spelled out here?
Foreign Minister: Well, those representations have already been made by officials, and you should anticipate that in my next engagements those points will be something we will discuss.
Ferguson: Could you just give us some detail on the nature of those communications, who made it and to whom?
Foreign Minister: Well, we were advised in Beijing by, at defence attache level and also in Canberra from Chinese officials. And the Australian view on these issues was communicated by officials.
Ferguson: Both in Australia and at the embassy in Beijing?
Foreign Minister: We've been briefed both in Beijing and in Canberra. Yes, that's correct.
Ferguson: And did those communications with the Chinese happen in both places, both in Australia and in Beijing, directly to the Foreign Minister?
Foreign Minister: The briefings, and sorry, the briefings and the response to them occurred today.
Ferguson: And hard pivot this one. You're close to the PM. What did you say to him about his Kylie Minogue brain snap?
Foreign Minister: Oh, he's responded to that.
Ferguson: What did you say to him? You're one of those members of…
Foreign Minister: No, no Sarah, well Sarah…
Ferguson: Of the government closest to the PM.
Foreign Minister: The Prime Minister's. The Prime Minister has responded to that, and I have nothing further to add.
Ferguson: Penny Wong, thank you very much indeed for joining us.
Foreign Minister: Thank you, Sarah.