Sabra Lane, Host: Penny Wong is the Foreign Minister, the Leader of the Government in the Senate and a member of the National Security Committee of Cabinet. And she joins us. Welcome back this morning.
Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good morning, good to be with you.
Lane: NSW Premier Chris Minns was given a very warm reception at the Bondi event last night, acknowledging a deep vein of antisemitic hate in the community. The Prime Minister was heckled. He wanted to speak at the event but was not allowed to. Could the Federal Government response to rising antisemitism since October the 7th permanently stain the Albanese Government's record?
Foreign Minister: First, Sabra, what I'd say is we see there's great grief, there's pain, there's trauma and there's anger. We've had 15 Australians killed in a horrific, evil, antisemitic attack on Jewish Australians. And all Australians feel such sorrow, as do I. And what I would say to all who are grieving is you are not alone. On antisemitism, what we know is that we all have to confront antisemitism. We have to make sure our security agencies have all the power they need. And we need an exhaustive investigation and we need to come together. Ultimately this attack is an attempt to divide us, and we will not let that happen.
Lane: To the point of that question, though, the Government's response to those attacks more than two years ago, will that now stain the Government's record?
Foreign Minister: Look, we have announced a number of additional actions to eliminate antisemitism in the wake of Sunday's attack, and we've engaged very closely with Jillian Segal. I'd make the point that, or two points actually. The first is, the action that was taken by the Government over the last couple of years. You've seen us crack down on hate speech. You've seen us criminalise doxing. You've seen us be very clear about counterterrorism laws banning Nazi salutes and so forth. We expelled the Iranian ambassador following the Islamic Revolutionary Guards role in the firebombing of the Adass Synagogue. But I said last week that we needed to do more and we are, which is why we have announced a stronger package of legislative reforms to crack down on those who spread hate, division and radicalisation. Now of course, you know, the Prime Minister has said, of course we recognise whilst we have done a great deal on hate speech and antisemitism, we have to do more, and we take responsibility for that.
Lane: You take responsibility. You just heard the package before, is it also time to say sorry?
Foreign Minister: Look, I think all of us wish that we were not where we are. We all wish that the ISIS inspired terrorist attackers had been stopped. We all wish that antisemitism had not continued in this country. And I think I've been on this program with you Sabra. I have over and over again, as Foreign Minister, said that we all needed to turn the temperature down over the last two years. I have argued that we must not bring the conflict to Australia. You have heard me say that, and that has always been my position.
Lane: The Government has announced an inquiry, but that didn't assuage the audience last night. Several calls for a federal Royal Commission were applauded. The former Chief Justice of the High Court, Robert French, has issued a lengthy statement saying there is a moral imperative for an inquiry in the most effective as a Commonwealth Royal Commission, alongside state inquiries, to publicly examine the nature and sources of antisemitism and practical measures which could be available or which were available to Commonwealth and states. Given that intervention, and it's a strong one, will the Federal Government reconsider it?
Foreign Minister: Look, can I say first, the Prime Minister has announced a review of our law enforcement and intelligence agencies, and that is not an internal review. It's a review led by Dennis Richardson.
Lane: With respect, it is an internal review because it's led by Mr Richardson, and he is widely regarded, but it is within the Prime Minister's Office and that is not independent.
Foreign Minister: It's not within the Prime Minister's Office. That's not accurate, Sabra. So please.
Lane: That is what the announcement was made yesterday.
Foreign Minister: It's within the Prime Minister's Department, Prime Minister and Cabinet. But it is led by Dennis, and I've worked with Dennis and I think you are aware of, you know, his reputation. I don't think anybody would doubt Mr Richardson's willingness to tell it as it is to whichever government is in power. That has been his career. But the focus of that, and this is important because it is our responsibility to keep Australians safe, is to ensure that federal law enforcement, federal intelligence agencies have the right power structures and processes and sharing arrangements to keep Australians safe in the wake of what has been a horrific attack.
Lane: Jewish leaders, as I mentioned earlier, David Ossip and Dan Aghion last night called for a Commonwealth Royal Commission. That was met with public applause. Josh Frydenberg, the former federal treasurer, says a failure to call a Royal Commission of this nature is the latest failure in federal leadership. And he asks, what are you afraid a Royal Commission might uncover? And many Australians might wonder the same thing this morning.
Foreign Minister: Well, I think that's imputing intentions which are not there. I think the focus that we have at the moment is to make sure that our agencies have the powers to keep people safe. And that's why the Prime Minister and the National Security Committee have focused on a review which ensures we get that information quickly, which is by April because, you know…
Lane: The Bondi Beach attack is the worst attack, terror attack, on Australian soil and if that doesn't warrant a Royal Commission, what would?
Foreign Minister: Well, I think the Prime Minister said we would cooperate with the State Royal Commission. But again, if I can come back to why we want to ensure our agencies have the powers they need. We have to make sure that our national security arrangements are fit for purpose and are able to keep people safe. And we need to learn from any mistakes, if there were any, made in the context of these attacks. In the context where we have, we see ISIS, an extremist ideology, in our country. Now this is the same organisation that the United States has just engaged in bombing raids on. It is, we all saw ISIS's perverse ideology and violent acts in the early part of the last decade. They've killed hundreds of thousands of people around the world, most of them Muslim. And now we have ISIS inspired terrorism in our country. So our focus is what do we have to do to keep Australians safe and review the reports by April, gives Government and the country the assurance that we are doing that.
Lane: The Prime Minister acknowledged last week that more could have been done, and he accepted his responsibility for that part of that. Do you regret, for example, not visiting southern Israel where the October the 7th atrocities took place, when you visited Israel last year?
Foreign Minister: Yeah look, I regret that the way in which people have experienced that. What I would say to you is I met instead with hostage families. I met instead with people who had either lost their children or father, or who were waiting for news of them. And I also went to Yad Vashem, which is the Holocaust Memorial in Israel which was extremely moving. So what I would say to you is that alongside that I've also, as you know, went to the commemoration of the liberation of Auschwitz. I'm very aware of the thousands of years of persecution that the Jewish people have experienced. And I am so deeply pained, as someone who has argued all my life for an inclusive Australia, to see the sort of prejudice, the hate that this act demonstrates. And I'm absolutely determined to continue to say that we are safer when we stand together and that is what our country must do.
Lane: What more have you been able to glean, if anything, from the Philippines or any other nations about the two gunmen and what help they might have had in carrying out this attack?
Foreign Minister: Sabra, as you know, this week one of the things I've been doing is engaging with my international counterparts and I thank them for their support, their condolences and their cooperation. In relation to the Philippines, I'm not in a position because that is under active investigation, to give you more details. What I will say is we are very grateful for the cooperation that the Philippines at all levels, including its law enforcement and security agencies are providing to Australia. We are working with them closely.
Lane: Have you been, I mean, you're hinting at, have we been able to glean more information, you just can't go into the details.
Foreign Minister: I can't, I can't go into an active investigation, Sabra.
Lane: Penny Wong, thanks for joining AM this morning.
Foreign Minister: Good to speak with you.