Hamish Macdonald, host: A very good morning to you, Minister.
Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good morning. Good to be with you.
Macdonald: Can we start with the Iranian women's football side? There are a lot of questions about the remaining cohort. Is the Australian Government certain that the remaining cohort do want to travel back to Iran?
Foreign Minister: First, I just want to say that obviously this is very sensitive in terms of how it's handled, and I'm conscious that the media has been respectful of that, and we do have a situation where there's been discussions with and a positive decision in relation to five of the players. And as the Prime Minister said, I think that people are clear, they are welcome to stay in Australia and they are welcome here. In relation to others, obviously, it's very clear the stance Australia is taking. These are ultimately decisions for the players.
Macdonald: And sensitive as I am to exactly what you're describing and obviously no pressure to get into territory that's going to jeopardise anyone or anything, but obviously there are some suggestions that some of these male figures may be preventing or precluding the women from exercising the rights available to them here in Australia, and that perhaps the Australian authorities should be taking more assertive steps to physically separate them. Could you offer us a comment on that?
Foreign Minister: I'm not going to respond to that, Hamish. You would anticipate, we understand these circumstances. Minister Bourke is handling them extremely well. I think you have seen that we are publicly indicating what the position is, and I'm sure other team members are aware of that.
Macdonald: It's six minutes to 11, the Foreign Minister Penny Wong is here. Can you help listeners understand why Australia's taken this decision to deploy both personnel and some assets to the Middle East as part of this broader conflict but relating to a specific dimension of it.
Foreign Minister: Thanks for the opportunity. We have determined to provide defensive military assistance to Gulf countries. Now, these are countries which have been targeted by Iran, despite the fact that they have not been participating in strikes against Iran. And we have determined – the Prime Minister, the Defence Minister and other ministers on the National Security Committee – have determined to provide two defensive capabilities to the Gulf. The reason we have done this is coming back to the primary objective, which is how do we keep Australians safe at home and overseas. In the United Arab Emirates, we had some 24,000 Australians and dependents at the commencement of this conflict. That state has been forced to shoot down over 1500 rockets and drones. And people would have seen the pictures of the strikes on Dubai Airport. We do believe that it is the right thing to provide defensive military assistance to Gulf countries for the purposes of ensuring that rockets and drones can be intercepted. And that is what we have done.
Macdonald: Understand that the intention is defensive. Once you're there, once you're in this, once you have Australian personnel there, how do you maintain control over that? Can you ensure that it remains a defensive posture?
Foreign Minister: We are very clear that we are not taking offensive action against Iran and we are not deploying Australian troops on the ground in Iran. Australian Defence Force assets operate in accordance with Australian law, in accordance with Australian policy and in accordance with Australian directives.
Macdonald: I suspect many listeners are concerned, though, about this idea that there may be mission creep, there may be greater expectations once we're there. What happens if, for example, this Australian aircraft is attacked or one of the personnel is injured in some kind of attack from Iran?
Foreign Minister: First, we hope all our people remain safe. Second, I just go back to what I've said, Hamish. These are Australian assets and they will operate in accordance with our law, Australian Government policy and the directives, through the command structure from Australians.
Macdonald: Penny Wong is here, the Foreign Minister. It's a couple of minutes to the news at 11 o’clock. Obviously, the Australian Government is navigating a nuanced line in relation to the broader conflict, leaving the legal arguments to the United States and Israel. But you have indicated that you support the intended outcome within Iran. How is it in Australia's national interest to have this broader conflagration? We can see the impact on fuel supply, petrol prices, Australians stuck in the Middle East. How is all of that, which is a consequence of what Israel and the United States are doing, in our national interest?
Foreign Minister: We start with the simple proposition, what is our priority? And our number one priority is to keep Australians safe at home and abroad. And that has informed the objectives that we support. So, we support Iran being prevented from obtaining a nuclear weapon, and Iran being prevented from continuing to be a threat to international peace and stability. And that posture has informed also the decisions we have made, including what you and I were just discussing, which is what sort of military assistance is being sent to the Gulf. Now you're right. This conflict has widened and escalated more than many had anticipated, and we are seeing not only the attacks on countries that have not participated in strikes on Iran, but civilian infrastructure which is having an effect on markets. We do think we will need to get to diplomacy and dialogue and de-escalation because we know, we understand that there are broader consequences of this conflict. I would make the point that the escalation has been Iran choosing to strike at 12 countries in the region.
Macdonald: But obviously a beheaded regime with a disaggregated IRGC is pretty unpredictable. Doesn't Israel and the United States have some culpability in that sequence of events?
Foreign Minister: I think that's a comment you want to make.
Macdonald: It's a question about your view on that.
Foreign Minister: The opining about what happens with the regime or what happens in the future, I don't think is something I can do. What I can say is what our attitude is to this and I have spoken about from the very first day the limits of the regime change being imposed from outside. And the point I have been making is that historically we see that it is extremely difficult for there to be sustainable regime change from externally. And that is why we say ultimately the future of Iran, including its governance, has to be in the hands of the Iranian people.
Macdonald: Minister, I'm so sorry to do this. We'll have to leave it there because we hit the news hard at 11 o'clock. We appreciate you coming on and we hope we can talk to you again soon.