Sonya Feldhoff, Host: Joining us now is Australia's Foreign Minister, South Australian Senator Penny Wong. Good morning, Senator.
Penny Wong, Minister for Foreign Affairs: Good morning, Sonya. Good to be with you all.
Feldhoff: Now, Minister, obviously this is changing at a very rapid rate. What can you tell us about the current state of negotiations around the ceasefire and the peace talks?
Foreign Minister: I think the simple way of putting it is that the ceasefire is fragile, but the world needs it to hold. Certainly, we saw President Trump today saying that the US will extend the ceasefire. We welcome that. We want to see talks resume and we want to see Iran return to the negotiations. We all know that we need an end to the conflict. We've been calling for that for some time. And we call on Iran to return to the table so that Iran and the United States can resolve this and the Strait can be opened.
Jules Schiller, Host: Do you think Iran has a unified leadership, though? Donald Trump seemed to suggest that it's pretty fractured at the moment.
Foreign Minister: Look, it's hard to tell, isn't it, because we're all looking from outside and working on some information that comes out. But certainly there's obviously been a change in leadership. We also saw Iran initially agree to open the Strait. Then within 12 hours, I think it was, closed the Strait again, which is one of the reasons why the US has blockaded. And so there was a very quick change in position by the Iranians. Now, whether or not that was because some parts of their system didn't agree with the commitment that was given or some other reason, it's hard to discern. But there's certainly been very different positions from the Iranian regime and from the Iranian negotiators.
Feldhoff: So, you say we're all watching from the outside. Does that include you as Australia's Foreign Minister?
Foreign Minister: We're not engaged in these negotiations, obviously, and we are not party to any of the offensive action against Iran. What I have been doing is talking to countries of the region. So, I spoke this week to Pakistan's Foreign Minister and I thanked him for the work they are doing alongside Egypt and Turkey, trying to get an outcome or at least to make sure negotiations occur. And facilitating those negotiations has been very important. So, we engage with other countries. That's what we do. And the PM, I think it was Friday night, was part of an online meeting convened by President Macron and Prime Minister Starmer to talk about post-conflict arrangements for the Strait. So, we'll continue to engage on de-escalation but also on fuel and making sure that we do everything we can internationally to secure the supplies of petrol, diesel and fertiliser that Australia needs.
Schiller: Senator, you just mentioned that meeting that took place last week. Is there going to be a meeting again in coming days? And if there is, who will be Australia's representative on that Strait of Hormuz meeting?
Foreign Minister: I assume there will be meetings continuing. The first of these meetings I attended was convened by Foreign Secretary Cooper from the United Kingdom. And then there was a leader-level meeting on Friday, and we'll continue to attend at the appropriate level.
Schiller: What can we do to keep the Strait of Hormuz open?
Foreign Minister: The first thing is you need a deal. And that's what we're all looking to. And that's what we're all looking for. The point I made last week is that it's a very difficult strait to secure militarily. And that's why diplomatic efforts to engage post the conflict being resolved are so important. Because ultimately you do want international arrangements and international agreement to keep freedom of navigation through the Strait.
Feldhoff: The US President Donald Trump is widely described by many people as being very unpredictable. And we've seen, you know, different things and things moving very quickly in relation to what he says and does. How do you read that unpredictability at the moment? Is that a strategy or is that Donald Trump being Donald Trump?
Foreign Minister: Look, President Trump has said one of his tactics is unpredictability. You know, before he took office this time, that was something he was already on the record as saying, that this is one of the ways he conducts negotiations is to be unpredictable. It is difficult, isn't it, to look and see a President, an administration that is behaving very differently to how we have previously envisioned America. But what I would say is President Trump does envision a very different role for America in the world. We are seeing that. We know that he prizes unpredictability. What we do need to do is continue to engage with the United States institutionally and continue to press for what we want, which is in our interests. And that is the ceasefire to hold and the Strait to be open. We're pleased and welcome the President's extension of that ceasefire.
Feldhoff: You're listening to Australia's Foreign Minister Penny Wong here on 891, ABC Adelaide with Sonya, Jules and Rory.
Rory McClaren, Host: Can I ask, Senator, you said that President Trump envisages a different role for the USA and the world. What do you mean by that?
Foreign Minister: I think it's self-evident, isn't it? I mean, he has been very clear in his first term, but also in the lead-up to this term about America first, how they approach the international system, that they no longer see themselves as underwriting the international system, which has been the traditional way in which the US has operated.
McClaren: And his relationship with NATO, does that concern you?
Foreign Minister: We say, and I think historically this is true, NATO has been the bedrock of peace in Europe across the Atlantic since the end of World War II, and that peace has benefitted the globe. We had two world wars start in Europe. I think history tells us why it's important to maintain stability in Europe, and NATO has been central to that.
Feldhoff: Speaking of the European leaders, obviously we're very much in the moment right now, but we also have to look to a future beyond a ceasefire and hopefully a resolution to this. What message are you getting from European leaders and what message are you sending in relation to what Australia's role might be in any sort of force to keep the Strait open?
Foreign Minister: We said we'll continue to engage. I'm not going to get drawn into hypotheticals because I don't think it's very clear at all as yet how and what those arrangements might need to be, because in part that depends on what the arrangements are arising out of any negotiated settlement with Iran. But we will continue to engage. It's in the world's interest for the Strait to be opened. You know that 20% of the world's oil goes through that Strait. You probably also know that actually 80% of the oil that comes to our region goes through the Strait. Now, what that means is that we and the countries of our region are disproportionately affected, which is why we have been engaging so closely with Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Brunei and other countries of the region.
Schiller: Can I ask in particular, Senator, about the question of fertiliser? Because what is the announcement in the last 24 hours from a federal government perspective regarding this agreement that has been reached to underwrite the financial risk of importing fertiliser? Because this is a significant development, is it not?
Foreign Minister: It's a really significant development. And what it demonstrates is the importance that we place on those three supply chains: petrol, diesel and fertiliser. And the point I made when I was in Southeast Asia last week is I said, diesel and fertiliser come to us and it comes back to you as food. So, this is integral to the region's resilience for us to continue to get diesel and fertiliser. Look, what the Government has done, both in relation to diesel and petrol, but also now in relation to fertiliser, this is the announcement Minister Collins made today, is that we recognise that the private sector needs help to gain these shipments. So, we will underwrite these shipments by agreement. And that's because obviously we have high prices and potentially very high prices. So, government works with the private sector in order to take on some of the financial risk so we can secure supplies. And we do that through what's called Export Finance Australia. And that's what Minister Collins has announced. Put simply, it's about government working with the private sector to get more fertiliser to Australia.
McClaren: Finally, Senator, I know you have to go, but the Budget is in a few weeks' time, are we going to see a change in capital gains tax discounts?
Foreign Minister: Well, again, good try. I think I've said to you–
McClaren: But are you concerned about the intergenerational equality though when it comes to housing?
Foreign Minister: We all are, we all are. That's why we have put so much into the supply side to try and get more housing to come into the market. That obviously takes a long time, much longer than you would like. And you know, I think Australia is regretting 10 years of a Coalition government that didn't see a role for the federal government in housing. Of course we're all concerned about intergenerational equity. We want our kids to have the same opportunities we had and that's why we put resources into housing supply. But in terms of speculation at the Budget, I'm going to leave that to the Treasurer to announce on Budget night any of the decisions that are made in the Budget.
Feldhoff: But should we take from that that there will be some changes to capital gains tax concessions, even if you can't detail what type of changes there'd be?
McClaren: You're a former finance minister, you know what this is like!
Foreign Minister: You're very persistent about it, you know, I'm not going to get into Budget.
Feldhoff: Well, you'd have to wonder whether you can lock anything in in the Budget in these current turbulent times. Anyway, until just before it –
McClaren: We won't tell anyone!
Foreign Minister: It is an even more challenging Budget for the Treasurer and the Finance Minister to put together because the global economic circumstances are so volatile. So, I think we're all very aware of that.
Feldhoff: Penny Wong. Look, thank you very much for your time, very much appreciate it. She's Australia's Foreign Affairs Minister. South Australian Senator Penny Wong.
Foreign Minister: Thank you.