Sabra Lane, Host: Australia's Foreign Minister joins us now. Penny Wong, good morning and welcome back to AM.
Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good morning, good to be with you Sabra.
Lane: Before we get to the issue of recognition, a prominent Al Jazeera journalist and four of his colleagues were killed in an Israeli airstrike in recent days. Israel says the journalist headed up a terror cell. Does Australia believe that?
Foreign Minister: Look, what I would say is journalists should be protected and we would say that journalists should be allowed there to do their work anywhere in the world and be protected in conflict. So, we're deeply concerned about these reports, as we are about so many of the reports of death and destruction in Gaza.
Lane: Israel's strategy, is it risking a forever war?
Foreign Minister: Look, the Israeli Government over the weekend made a decision to escalate its military offensive in Gaza. And what I said, joined with many other countries, was this will aggravate the humanitarian situation, it will endanger the lives of hostages and it will further risk the mass displacement of civilians. So, we are opposed to the decision or we reject this decision of the Israeli cabinet to launch an additional large-scale military operation in Gaza. What we want to see is a ceasefire. We want to see the hostages released and we want to see aid to flow and we want a pathway to two states because that is the only pathway to lasting peace and security for both Israelis and Palestinians.
Lane: In recognising a Palestinian state, what difference will that make practically now to the lives of Palestinians?
Foreign Minister: We've been looking for the best opportunity for Australia to contribute to international momentum that breaks the cycle of violence. And that is what two states seeks to do. As your report at the beginning of this program described, this has been a promise of the international community since 1947, that we would establish as an international community the State of Israel and we would establish a state for the Palestinian people. 77 years later, that has not occurred. What there has been over the last year is coordination amongst the international community, amongst nations, about how we break this cycle of violence, how do we contribute to momentum towards two states? And you have seen many countries move. You have also seen major new commitments, not only from the Palestinian Authority, but also the Arab League. We have an opportunity to isolate Hamas and we have an opportunity to move to a better future. And that's why the Government has taken this decision.
Lane: That view is not shared. You would have heard too, the criticism that the decision doesn't bring peace any closer and that it risks rewarding Hamas for the October 7th attacks.
Foreign Minister: I'll deal with both of those. First, what is the counterfactual here? I mean, if we wait for success to be guaranteed, it means waiting for a day that cannot come. We can't keep doing what we have been doing and hoping for a different outcome. And I think that's the decision that so many countries of the world have made. In relation to Hamas, we condemn Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist organisation. It is not only responsible for the atrocities of October 7, the horrific actions. It also opposes two-state solution. It opposes the existence of the State of Israel. They are a listed terrorist organisation. We condemn them. We call on them to release the hostages and to disarm. But what we are doing is moving to support moderate Palestinian and Arab voices. We're working with those who support ending Hamas' grip on Gaza, the Palestinian Authority and the countries of the Arab League. This is Australia's best opportunity, alongside others, to work to isolate Hamas.
Lane: Many Australian Palestinians are dismissive of this decision. They say it won't stop the killings right now. They want stronger actions and sanctions, possibly the entire Israeli cabinet, and export bans. Are those things that the government's willing to consider?
Foreign Minister: Well, first, we all want this war to end and what we are working with others to do is to try and seek a road towards peace. The second point I'd make is we have sanctioned Israeli ministers, we have sanctioned Israeli settlers, we have sanctioned entities. We've taken action and we have worked with others in making our views very clear, including the statement in relation to the escalation in Gaza that I've referred to. What I would say to them is to consider the words of Dr Varsen, the Foreign Minister of the Palestinian Authority, where she described this as not only the right thing to do, but she said it gives Palestinians a sense of hope for the future. We know this is a hard road to walk, but the alternative is to accept where we are and I think the international community is saying to both the Israeli and Palestinian peoples, we have to find a different path.
Lane: Ultimately, the United States is likely to use its veto power at the United Nations Security Council to block a decision on this. In that case, what's Australia's next move?
Foreign Minister: First, the US does have a different role in the world and the US is working to establish a ceasefire in Gaza. And we support the efforts of President Trump and his envoy to the Middle East in seeking a ceasefire and the release of hostages and for aid to flow. Obviously, we've made a decision alongside many partners, particularly more recently United Kingdom and Canada, to do this with others. What I've said is that the practical steps for recognition will be tied to the commitments that the Palestinian Authority have made. So, we'll work through that.
Lane: To the nub of the question, though, the US is likely to use its veto power. What's next?
Foreign Minister: Well, we have bilateral relationships, just as the United Kingdom does, just as Canada does. And you know, we've taken a view about the importance of moving with others down this path.
Lane: On the Putin-Trump summit in Alaska later this week to discuss the Ukraine war, how concerned is Australia that Mr Trump will agree to something that Ukraine and most of the western world won't stomach?
Foreign Minister: What we want to see is that meeting resulting in a pathway to resolution on Ukraine's terms. And the US and President Trump is uniquely placed to broker that and I hope that that summit does see a pathway to ending a conflict which has cost so many Ukrainian lives. And I would also make the point that this illegal and immoral war has also cost so many Russian lives.
Lane: Foreign Minister Penny Wong, thanks for joining AM this morning.
Foreign Minister: Good to speak with you.