Kieran Gilbert, Host: Thanks Foreign Minister, for being with us. Will the Prime Minister head to NATO next week to get that long anticipated meeting with Donald Trump?
Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good to be with you, Kieran. Well, as the Prime Minister said in his press conference today, that is something that is under consideration, obviously in relation not only to President Trump, but more broadly we see the world in a dangerous point. We see the importance of collective action, collective discussion and engagement with other countries of the world. So, obviously this is a decision for the Prime Minister, but I think he made clear to the Australian people this was a matter that he is considering carefully.
Gilbert: Given the volatility worldwide at the moment, there's an argument even separate to the Trump matter, to be there, isn't there?
Foreign Minister: I think that these are the issues that are weighing on the Prime Minister's mind. We all understand we face a very grave moment as a globe and we have to work together. And the Prime Minister obviously engaged closely with other leaders, other world leaders. Because of the Middle East crisis, President Trump did depart early. We understand that and we look forward to rescheduling the meeting.
Gilbert: And do you see that as just, you know, the cut and thrust of diplomacy, that sometimes these things happen when you're dealing with the most powerful person in the world, that you have a scheduled meeting that doesn't eventuate? But as a Foreign Minister, I guess you just take that as part of the diplomatic dance. Is that how you see it?
Foreign Minister: Absolutely. I've had many meetings rescheduled, many meetings I haven't told you about which haven't proceeded because we haven't been able to land Ministers being in the same place at the same time. I mean, I think we all need some perspective here. I understand why this is a focus of the media. We are at a point where the conflict in the Middle East is at a very grave and perilous point. That is what is occupying the minds of global leaders. And so it should. Because what we want to see is this situation resolved by Iran's actions. Iran must come to the table. Iran must stop any nuclear program that is the fastest way out of danger for the globe, for the region and for the Iranian people.
Gilbert: I want to ask you a bit more detail, in a bit more detail on that issue in a moment. But just to tick off on this because the Coalition's been critical of the Prime Minister. Sussan Ley has said that Mr. Albanese wasn't forward leaning enough, hasn't made the effort sooner and with enough energy to get to see Donald Trump. What do you say to that critique?
Foreign Minister: I'd say to Ms Ley and to the Opposition that you can be in Opposition but still back the country. And this is a time where we should all be speaking with one voice. I think Australians know these are uncertain times, these are challenging times and that we speak with a stronger voice, if we speak with one voice.
Gilbert: On Iran, would it be a safer world – and I know you call for de-escalation, but if we look at the scenario that Donald Trump clearly is has on the table at the moment, the possibility of giving, using that bunker bomb to destroy the enrichment facilities at the Fordow plant in Iran - if they wipe that out, isn't the world a safer place?
Foreign Minister: I have been clear, the world has been clear that any nuclear weapons program by Iran is a risk, a threat to global peace and security as well as the security of the region. We've been clear about that. And I again say Iran must come to the table. The fastest way out of the danger that the world sees, that the region is experiencing and that the Iranian people are suffering under is for Iran to come to the table and to stop any nuclear weapons program. That remains Australia's call. I'll leave the decisions for the US to them. But our call, like all other countries, most other countries, is that Iran must stop any nuclear weapons program and must come to the table.
Gilbert: It sounds ominous though, doesn't it? The Supreme Leader says that the battle has begun. The language that's coming from both sides doesn't, it doesn't engender much confidence that this is going to end peacefully anytime soon.
Foreign Minister: Ultimately, the Iranian regime has to make a decision about whether it is going to continue down a path that is so perilous. As I'll again say, Iran must come to the table. Iran must stop its nuclear, any nuclear weapons program. That is the fastest way out of the danger Iran and the world, the region and the people face at this point.
Gilbert: And if it doesn't end that way, what are the, what are the risks here? How serious is this? You said we're at a very dangerous, perilous time, globally. What are the flow on risks as you see it, if this does worsen over coming days?
Foreign Minister: I've been clear from day one, as have other world leaders or world leaders, including Prime Minister Starmer and President Macron and others, the real risk here is of regional escalation and nobody wants to see that. That would have dire consequences for the people of the region, all the peoples of the region. That has been our message, including in my conversations with both the Israeli Foreign Minister and the Iranian Foreign Minister. But the point that we are at, I think we can all see that Iran needs to come back to the table and stop any program. That's the fastest way to assure security for the people of the region.
Gilbert: You've announced sanctions on Russia's shadow fleet vessels that it has used to try and get around other targeted sanctions. What is the significance of that? Why does it matter?
Foreign Minister: It matters a lot. This is about making sure you keep your sanctions effective. We have, Russia utilises a shadow fleet. What does that mean? It means boats which evade sanctions by not registering properly, by flying different flags, by not insuring properly, by deceiving authorities. We want to make sure that our sanctions are effective and we've worked alongside other partners to sanction the shadow fleet. This is about continuing to put pressure on the Russian economy as a consequence of what is an illegal and immoral continued invasion of Ukraine.
Gilbert: Penny Wong, thanks for your time. Lot's happening. Appreciate it.
Foreign Minister: Good to speak to you.