Karl Stefanovic, Host: More now on Labor's hate crimes bill passing the Senate overnight. Joining me to discuss is Foreign Minister, Penny Wong, in Sydney. Senator, thanks for your time this morning, appreciate it. Look, while you were debating the bill, there was a shocking antisemitic attack in Melbourne. Is the Jewish community this morning any safer?
Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: First, in relation to that attack, I did see that footage, Karl, and it's good to be with you, and it's so frightening, and completely unacceptable, and I'm sure those young Jewish Australians must be feeling quite traumatised by that attack. It is a reminder of how we all, government, leaders, must all work to confront antisemitism. The legislation that was passed last night is really important legislation. It deals with two issues. The two issues, as the Prime Minister said, are these: when the Bondi attackers went to Bondi, they had hatred in their minds and guns in their hands, and the national security package of legislation we passed last night tackles both of those.
Stefanovic: Isn't the bill a watered-down disappointment for you, though, on what you set out to do?
Foreign Minister: Obviously, we would have preferred even stronger legislation, and it's a reminder of how divided and inconsistent the Coalition under Ms Ley have been. They wanted Parliament recalled, and then they were against it when it was recalled, they wanted stronger action on hate speech, and then they were against that, they wanted Jillian Segal's report, the Envoy for Antisemitism, her report implemented in full, and then they didn't want it implemented in full. But look, the package last night, regardless, is the strongest set of laws confronting hate that we have ever passed, and the gun package that was passed deals directly with some of the important lessons of Bondi. It will mean that non-citizens won't be able to own guns, and it will mean that intelligence agencies and knowledge is taken, is considered when gun licences are issued. Now both of those issues will improve the safety of the community.
Stefanovic: Why did the PM blame Scott Morrison when this wave of antisemitism and the Bondi attacks happened on your watch?
Foreign Minister: The PM was making the point that antisemitism is an ancient hatred. We do know, and the Prime Minister has acknowledged this, that since October 7, we have seen antisemitism increase around the world, including here in Australia, and that is an issue for all of us. It's –
Stefanovic: He shouldn't have done that though, he was passing the buck.
Foreign Minister: I don't think that is at all what he is doing, and I think the Prime Minister has been very clear about the responsibility he feels, and as someone who sat through multiple National Security Committees and Cabinet meetings with him over the break since Bondi where we worked through this. I can say he is very focused on making sure we do all we can to confront antisemitism and to keep Australians safe.
Stefanovic: Nonetheless, you apologised to the Australian people for not doing enough before the attack. You were also accused of going missing in the days following the attack. How did that sit with you?
Foreign Minister: Well, what I can say is, I'm a member of the National Security Committee. We met multiple times, I did multiple interviews, I engaged with my counterparts, with my Israeli counterpart, with the Philippines, with my Indian counterpart, and others, to brief them and to engage on the issues. I also, I was pleased that we could also assist one of the heroes of Bondi, Gefen Bitton, who was medevaced back to Israel, and obviously the Government worked to facilitate that.
Stefanovic: The Jewish community said you should have gone down there.
Foreign Minister: Look, I've visited Bondi privately, I understand, you know, that people are grieving and are angry. We all are. This is the worst terrorist attack that we have seen on Australian soil. 15 Jewish Australians were killed, and as I have said, it was an attack on the Jewish community, but Karl, it was an attack on Australia. It was an attack on all of us, it was an attack on who we are and what we believe in, and we must fight to unite and to ensure we do not do what the terrorists want, which is to be divided. Which is why it was so disappointing to see last night the division under Ms Ley in the Coalition.
Stefanovic: Okay. The responsibility now rests with you, I think, to explain, I think, what is it, 500 pages of this document, to the Aussie public. As an example, if someone or a group says Israel engaged in genocide, will they be prosecuted now?
Foreign Minister: Can I start with what the legislation does, it does a number of things. Obviously, one of the things it does is it enables the Minister to cancel and suspend visas of people who come to Australia to preach hatred. We have the gun legislation, which is toughening up the gun laws in the ways that I've described. In relation to the hate groups, what this legislation does is it enables the Minister to determine and prescribe that a group is a hate group in accordance with the legislation. But that's not a political decision. That's a decision that is done on the advice of security agencies, and the Leader of the Opposition is briefed. So, I just want to say to your viewers and to you, what we are trying to do is to crack down on groups who seek to incite hatred for the purposes of engaging in incitement and criminal activity. We're not seeking to crack down on people's, you know, difference of political debate.
Stefanovic: So, under that, under the legislation, people will still be able, or groups will still be able to say that?
Foreign Minister: Well, I'm not going to get into hypotheticals about what can and can't be said. I'm making a point about the way the legislation works.
Stefanovic: Do you think people should be able to say that?
Foreign Minister: I don't believe that, well, the Government's position is that the State of Israel has a right to exist, and we seek two states, because that is the way to ensure long-term peace and security for both Israelis and Palestinians.
Stefanovic: All right. Senator, there's a lot to digest in all of this, and we appreciate you being on. Thank you.
Foreign Minister: Good to be with you.