Karl Stefanovic: A Chinese woman has been charged with reckless foreign interference after allegedly infiltrating a Canberra-based religious group. It's been a busy day for Foreign Minister Penny Wong. She joins us from Adelaide. Senator, thanks for your time again. Appreciate you joining us on this very busy morning for you. How disturbing is this breach right under our noses in Canberra?
Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Morning, Karl. Good to be with you and everyone. Look, I can't comment on the case because it's before the courts but can I make some general comments? We safeguard our democracy, we believe that our democracy matters and we've got strong frameworks around foreign interference to safeguard Australians from surveillance, from harassment and from any threats.
Stefanovic: Have you spoken to Beijing about it?
Foreign Minister: I regularly, in my engagements with my Chinese counterparts, make very clear that we do not tolerate foreign interference. I talk about the importance of democracy to Australians, that is part of who we are and that we will safeguard it, and we will protect it.
Stefanovic: But not in relation to this yet?
Foreign Minister: I can't comment on this specific case. It's before the courts, Karl, you know that. But good try.
Stefanovic: Do you trust China?
Foreign Minister: I trust China to do what China thinks is in its interest and I trust Australia to do what's in our interest. And I'd make this point, Karl, we've never said that dialogue eliminates differences. Clearly it doesn't. What it does is it enables us to put our views and to press for Australia's interests.
Stefanovic: The problem is the PM has met with the Chinese President four times. We've had state visits with all the trappings, the tours, the teas, the pandas, the whole lot. The problem is you never really know how much you can trust them.
Foreign Minister: Well, I think we all are very clear-eyed about China and its interests. We've made that clear. The question is how do we manage that? And dialogue and engagement is part of it. It doesn't eliminate differences, but it does enable us to put our views.
Stefanovic: How close is you recognising Palestinian statehood? I mean, what are you waiting for?
Foreign Minister: We understand the urgency. We also understand the importance of having impact. We are obviously discussing and coordinating these issues with many other countries. I think the key point here is, Karl, everybody understands that there is a risk there will be no Palestine left to recognise unless the international community work together towards two states. Why do we want two states? Because that is ultimately the only way we get security for Israelis and Palestinians.
Stefanovic: Okay. Again, the problem is, I guess, does anything really change? If we do, Israel is threatening to expand military operations because Hamas is still a strategic threat. Do you think it still is a strategic threat?
Foreign Minister: We want Hamas to release the hostages and we want to ensure work with others to ensure that Hamas has no role in a future Palestinian state. And we do have a unique opportunity at this time with the international community to isolate Hamas. We've seen Arab countries and the Palestinian Authority distance themselves, condemn Hamas. That is a very important set of propositions because ultimately the region and the world need to find a way towards two states that can live side by side.
Stefanovic: I guess I'm a little confused as to what it looks like for you to finally recognise their sovereignty. What needs to happen? What are the guidelines that we're waiting for?
Foreign Minister: Well, September, there will be a high-level leaders' meeting at the UN. Between now and then, we will be working with other countries and coordinating with them, as you would anticipate.
Stefanovic: How's Albo going getting on the blower with Netanyahu? Is he not picking up?
Foreign Minister: I understand that a call has not yet occurred and I'm sure if it does, the Prime Minister will put the view that he's put publicly and the view of so many Australians, which is Australia wants to see a ceasefire. Australia wants to see the hostages released. We've seen some awful footage of hostages in recent days. Australia wants aid to flow. We are horrified by the lack of aid getting in by those, civilians who are being killed when they are lining up for aid. This is Australia's position. We also want to see a pathway to two states. We're very clear about that.
Stefanovic: Any luck with the Trump meeting yet?
Foreign Minister: I don't believe a meeting has been organised as yet. I'm sure there will be a meeting. What I would say as we continue to engage, obviously, I've seen Secretary Rubio and spoken to him on a number of occasions. It's a very important relationship.
Stefanovic: Alright. Good to talk to you as always, Penny. Thank you.