Isabella Higgins, Host: Foreign Minister, Penny Wong, joined me a short time ago. Minister, thanks for joining us on AM after a late night in the Senate for yourself and others. Do you think Australians can be satisfied that this is a strong package of hate speech laws after all the amendments that were made?
Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Isabella, the Bondi attackers had hatred in their minds and guns in their hands, and the laws passed last night tackled both of those. Now, obviously, we have had to make changes in order to get the Coalition to support it. In particular, we've had to remove some of the strongest provisions that were put into the Bill, provisions that had been called for by Jillian Segal, the Special Envoy against antisemitism, because the Coalition would not support them. But having said that, these are the strongest hate laws the country has ever passed, and the gun laws would have ensured that non‑citizens, such as the father who was involved in, who was one of the murderers in the Bondi massacre, would not have got a gun.
Higgins: You made it clear you would have liked to have seen those racial vilification laws included in this legislation, changes were being made down to the wire. There wasn't much time to explain how this legislation is going to work to the public. Is that really best practice, particularly when there was this sensitivity of these laws being introduced after a horrific terror attack?
Foreign Minister: As you said, this was a horrific terrorist attack. Fifteen Australians, fifteen Jewish Australians, were murdered. We, as a Government, have been working methodically through this legislation. We recognise the urgency. And let's remember, through the Christmas‑New Year period, the Coalition were calling for Parliament to be recalled. Then when Parliament was recalled, they were against that. They called for hate speech to be dealt with, and then they opposed those provisions. They called for Jillian Segal's report to be implemented, and then they opposed one of the recommendations being implemented. And what you did see last night is this, at a time Australians want unity, Sussan Ley could not unite the Coalition, with Coalition Senators voting against the bill and for the bill.
Higgins: And look, as I said, not too much time for the public to really get their head around these laws as well. There's some confusion about where the line is drawn with these new hate laws. Last night, your colleague, Michelle Rowland, was asked whether groups that accuse Israel of committing genocide in Gaza or argue that Israel should not exist as a State could be banned under proposed new hate crime laws. What's your understanding?
Foreign Minister: Well, I think it's very important, first, to understand what the laws do. These laws do a number of things. One of the things they do is give the Minister for Home Affairs the power to suspend and cancel visas for people who have come to Australia to spread hate. Another aspect of the laws is the one to which you refer, which is, it gives ministers the power to proscribe hate groups. That is only on the advice of the Director‑General of ASIO, and after consultation with the Attorney‑General, and the focus of those laws is on those organisations which are seeking to incite hate crimes. So, this legislation which is very clear about trying to crack down on those who are seeking to incite criminal behaviour motivated by hatred. It is not legislation which is designed to prevent differences of views and freedom of speech.
Higgins: So, just to be clear, groups that are opposed to Israel's existence or critical of the nation, could they be banned under those laws?
Foreign Minister: Look, as I said, it's not designed to prevent political debate, although I note that some of the things you're putting to me are fairly contrary to government policy. What it is designed to do is to crack down on organisations which are seeking to incite hate crimes, and the checks and balances which have been put into this legislation, which include two ministers' engagement and the Leader of the Opposition to be briefed, I think, does demonstrate that we are seeking to get that balance right. Freedom of expression is important in our country, but I think with the rise of antisemitism and in the wake of the worst terrorist attack that this country has seen on Australian soil, we really do need to continue to strengthen our response to hate and those who seek to spread hate in our society.
Higgins: And several of your colleagues have said that there is going to be further legislative response to come, particularly as we watch the Bondi Royal Commission. I might just move on to some other news now. This is happening as many countries are considering Donald Trump's invitation to be on the so-called Board of Peace. Can Australia seriously consider this when the US is actively trying to take another autonomous region?
Foreign Minister: We have received an invitation to be part of the Board of Peace along with many other countries. We are considering that and engaging with the United States to understand more fully their intention and the operation of the Board, and we are engaging with other partners on this.
Higgins: Look, another issue that the ABC has been contacted by hundreds of audience members about, is the changes to the UK and Ireland's new passport rules for dual citizens, many who say they've been left scrambling, locked out of their home country. Is there an opportunity to ask the UK to delay these changes?
Foreign Minister: I have seen the concern that people have raised about that, both publicly, and obviously, engagement with the community. These are changes to UK entry requirements which the United Kingdom has put in place for all dual citizens, so not just Australians, but all of their citizens. So obviously, this is a broader change that many Australian-British dual citizens are caught up in. We've conveyed these concerns to the British High Commission, and I hope we can work through this.
Higgins: Minister Penny Wong, I think we might be out of time, but thank you very much for joining us on AM this morning.
Foreign Minister: Good to speak with you.