David Penberthy, Host: It was about quarter to six this morning when Will and I were getting ready to start our show, when Sam Daddow brought you the news on Early Breakfast that Donald Trump had issued a statement via Truth Social saying that there was going to be an open-ended ceasefire now with Iran. As we try to work through the implications of that, we are joined by the person who in Australia is more attuned and involved in all this than anyone, the Foreign Minister, Penny Wong. Minister, fantastic having you on the show on such a big day. And thank you. What is your read of what this statement means?
Penny Wong, Foreign Minster: Well, greetings to you both. It's great to have the opportunity to be back in Adelaide and talk to you. The President has said the ceasefire is being extended. What we say is that we want the ceasefire to hold. We know it's fragile, we've all seen that. We also know that we need the Strait opened. And the first thing that needs to occur to enable the Strait to be open is for talks to be held. So, we would urge Iran to come back to the table. The US has made clear it's willing to have this negotiation and the Iranians should respond. I spoke to the Pakistani Foreign Minister a couple of nights ago, they're obviously the ones bringing the two parties together. I thanked him for the work he is doing and we discussed the prospect of the negotiations proceeding. I hope that they will soon because the world does need that.
Will Goodings, Host: Minister, do you think there is an agreement achievable that features an Iranian willingness to surrender both its uranium and indeed its ambition to pursue nuclear weapons?
Foreign Minster: That's what the US is seeking. It's seeking assurance around the nuclear weapons ambition of Iran. And that's a reasonable proposition. I mean, we've seen Iran operate outside its borders, sponsoring terrorism, being behind an attack on home soil against Australian, Australian workplaces and places of worship. So, that is understandable from the US and one that I think we all would be supportive of. We don't want to see Iran gaining a nuclear capability. It's not the only thing on the table though. And we, I know that this is a complex negotiation, but we also can see what's happening, not just at the bowser here for Australians, but what's happening to diesel, what's happening to fertiliser and therefore what will happen to the global economy. And so that we do all want this conflict over.
Penberthy: How would you describe the state of the relationship with the US, Foreign Minister? I mean, we've seen now, Donald Trump's taken more than a couple of pot shots at Australia. I mean, we're no orphans there, he's given a running critique of pretty much every NATO member country. He's had a crack at the UK. Is the relationship as strong as it was before this conflict, do you think?
Foreign Minster: Couple of points Penbo, this is a relationship between two nations, and it's a relationship that we've had for a very long time, and we continue to work very closely with the Americans, particularly institutionally through our military, and also diplomatically, as well as economically. On President Trump, he is someone who says himself that one of his tactics is unpredictability. And we've seen that in this conflict and since he was elected, and we've also seen that he envisages a very different role for America in the world, a very different US in the world. And that was something that was predictable, I predicted this, I said that he has a very different view of the US in the world, you just have to look at what he said during the campaign. So, this is a very different presidency, but Australians can be confident of our capacity together to navigate this difference, including continuing our strong relationship with the United States, but also investing in a lot of other relationships. And you've seen the Government do that, whether it's Indonesia, whether it's the Europeans, whether it's Canada. You'll see us continue to do that.
Goodings: Considering the implications of this war on our neck of the woods, Foreign Minister, the Pacific island nations are acutely vulnerable to diesel fuel shortages, particularly. And, and our Government has done a power of work to try and, you know, keep them in the tent, for want of a better turn of phrase. Is there concern, do you have concern that the longer this goes on, the more likely those nations, perhaps even out of necessity, are going to have to turn to China to try and navigate what is going to be a particularly difficult time for them.
Foreign Minster: I'm concerned about the whole region. I'm obviously first, my first priorities are always the Australian people. But I'm concerned about the whole region and the reason for that is pretty clear. Whilst 20 per cent of the world's energy comes through the Strait of Hormuz, 80 per cent of the oil that we use in our region comes through the Strait. So, we've been disproportionately affected. The refineries of Asia have been disproportionately affected. Which is one of the reasons you've seen us in the region, the Prime Minister and I in Singapore, in Malaysia, in Brunei, trying to work with them to shore up further supplies and to assure contracts for Australians. So, we'll continue to work with the Pacific. I met with the Foreign Minister of Fiji yesterday to discuss this issue. We'll keep working with the Pacific. We obviously want to continue to work with them as a member of the Pacific family.
Penberthy: Do you see new sort of allegiances or pacts, sort of evolving from the unpredictability that you described earlier, Foreign Minister? I mean, thinking about an organisation like the Quad, does the Quad even serve a purpose anymore? I mean, it's Australia, the US, India and Japan. Is that, is that even operative with Donald Trump as president? And are we now seeing, I mean, we're seeing a lot of stuff out of Europe where countries like Spain, which is much more left-wing government than yours, but even with that, they're trying to drum up support with other groups. The French are talking about doing different things. Is this an era now where over the next two and a half years, the remaining life of the Trump presidency, where people are going to start trying to find new friends?
Foreign Minster: What you're seeing, and it's a really good question Penbo, I mean, I think what we're seeing is countries recognising that we can't simply rely on the great powers to assure stability. That's fundamentally what it means. You can't simply rely on the US and China to make sure the world runs in a stable way. We also have to contribute. And part of how we contribute is to engage not only with them, which we need to do. The US is our principal strategic partner. China is a great power in the world and in our region. But we also have to engage with other groups and other countries. And you've seen the Government do that. So, I talk about the four Rs in foreign policy. I talk about our region, relationships, rules, which is the international rules, and our resilience as a country. When I talk about relationships, what I'm talking about is exactly what you're saying. It's our relationship with India, our relationship with Japan, our relationship with the European Union, our relationship with Canada. These are all relationships that matter to us. They are each, they all contribute to stability because we know, unfortunately, we live in a time we all have to work harder to maintain stability in our region, and that requires working with a range of partners, and that's what the Government is doing.
Penberthy: Can I ask a weird question just to wrap it up? Penny Wong, has this conflict and also the Trump presidency, has it, has it forced a change to the nature of your own job? Because Will and I often marvel when we start so early with the time difference with the USA. Like, we woke up the other morning it's like oh there's a picture of Donald Trump as Jesus Christ, what about that? Do you find that you don't really go to bed anymore of an evening because it's just things change from hour to hour.
Foreign Minster: I think we've all come to understand that things move quickly and so I don't, I have to say, I just accept that every time I wake up in the morning the world might have changed a little bit more, but we have just got to manage it as best we can yeah.
Penberthy: Absolutely, get the old power nap in in the afternoon when things are quiet. Foreign Minister Penny Wong thank you for joining us this morning on FiveAA.
Foreign Minster: Yeah great to be with you.