Ali Moore, Host: Penny Wong is the Foreign Minister, senior Cabinet Minister currently in Fiji holding talks around a future security pact. Penny Wong, welcome.
Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good to be with you. I've been on the line for a while, and I have enjoyed the happy birthday discussion.
Moore: Where do you stand? Do you think that we should ban it or not?
Foreign Minister: No, you can't ban happy birthday.
Moore: No, I think that's definitely well, you're definitely in line with our audience there. I want to get to some of those other issues in a minute, Minister, but these, the greater fuel security measures which we'll get to. You are in Fiji, how worried are Pacific countries about the same thing about fuel security? And I guess the bigger question is how much capacity do they have to shore up their own positions?
Foreign Minister: Well, of course, like Australians, our Pacific region, the Pacific family that we're part of is also worried about energy security. And it's just a reminder really, of the way in which, you know, we have shared interests. We all want the Strait of Hormuz open. We want energy to come back through, oil to come back through the Strait and down the supply chains into our countries and into, you know, the petrol bowsers and the diesel tanks that run our country. So, that's been part of our discussions here. We've been talking more generally about our partnership with Fiji. It's a very important partnership and we intend to strengthen it because we think that is in Australia's interest. It's part of ensuring we've got a stable and secure region.
Moore: So, what will a new security pact deliver for both countries?
Foreign Minister: Well, what it delivers for Australia is a partner, a regional partner – Fiji is a regional leader – that works with us to contribute to peace, stability and prosperity in the region. And this is really working through what the Prime Ministers announced at the last leaders' meeting of our intention to enter into a deeper partnership, a stronger partnership. So, we're working on that to finalise that. We had a good discussion with the Fiji Cabinet today about the areas that we can work together.
Moore: At the same time, a lot of talk that while things are progressing in Fiji, things are not progressing with a similar agreement with Vanuatu. The talk being that has been very much derailed by pushback from Beijing. Is that a fair, you know, I suppose fair description of the circumstances there?
Foreign Minister: Well, I think Vanuatu wants to make its own sovereign decisions about this and you know, we respect that and we'll continue to engage. We're a longstanding partner with Vanuatu. I mean a lot of Ni-Vanuatu, that's Vanuatu citizens, come to Australia to work on our Pacific Labour Mobility Program. And through that Australia obviously contributes to its development and Vanuatu contributes to our labour force.
Moore: If I can ask you about the Strait of Hormuz and the latest announcement, the whole reason that we've got this fuel crisis, the latest announcement from Donald Trump that there's going to be a pause in efforts to clear the Strait, the so called 'Operation Freedom'. He says they're going to try and get a peace deal. Do you have any insight into where we're up to or do you wake up just like the rest of us and think, you know, 'what next'?
Foreign Minister: Well, it's certainly a very challenging situation and there's been a lot different phases in it. I said quite early on in this discussion that it's very difficult to secure the Strait of Hormuz militarily. And that's one of the reasons why countries have been engaging in diplomatic outreach and discussions about how post-conflict, we can assure freedom of navigation through the Strait. The US has said it wants to come to an agreement with Iran that ensures that we see oil flowing through the Strait. We support those efforts. Obviously, we're not there yet. And that's impacting on energy markets globally and flowing through to Australia and the Australian economy.
Moore: At the same time though, you've got the US Secretary of State Marco Rubio saying that the US military operation against Iran is over, that 'Operation Epic Fury' is concluded. It's very confusing for those of us just watching it from outside.
Foreign Minister: Well, the US has achieved most of the military objectives that it articulated at the commencement of the conflict. And that's why you heard the Prime Minister and I speak about the importance of deescalation and dialogue. And that's the point at which we're at, we're at a point of negotiations between the US and Iran. There's a way to go on those. We haven't seen those resolve the issue yet. And so, we see the turmoil on global markets continue. That's why the Government's so focused on fuel security. It's why I spent last week in North Asia, in Japan, Korea and China, and in the weeks before that with the Prime Minister in Southeast Asia, in Singapore and Malaysia and Brunei, and these are countries that export to us. And one of the things we want to do is continue to work with our partners to secure supply.
Moore: So, this $10 billion plan today to create a, to create a – I think it's a one billion litre fuel reserve. How much more secure does that make Australia's supplies?
Foreign Minister: There's three elements to it and all of them are about economic resilience. The first element is making sure we can do what we already do now, but on a more permanent basis, and that is underwriting the private sector's supply chains. So, you know, through the Government's Export Finance Australia, that's one of the measures that we introduced some weeks ago. They work with fuel companies and underwrite contracts so we can continue to get fuel into Australia. So, this is putting it on a more permanent footing and that is a good thing. Then, in addition, we are proposing to establish a government-owned reserve of, as you say, about a billion litres, focused on diesel and aviation fuel. They are the two areas where we have most need to increase our resilience. And thirdly, to increase what's called the minimum stockholding obligation, and that is requiring companies to increase our fuel reserves to 50 days. So, the combination of those three measures reflect what we all have learned through this, which is we are overly reliant on one part of the world. I think 80 per cent of our fuel, oil that comes through the Strait is destined for the Asia Pacific region. So, we've got to make sure we do more, diversify supply and we hold more onshore.
Moore: One of the big conversations in the lead up to the Budget, it's been knocked on the head, but it was about putting a tax on our gas exports. And the argument from the Government after your trips around the region was that now is not the time to unsettle our trading partners because we rely on them, but they rely on us as well. Did you actually have those very specific conversations? You put a tax on this and we're going to pay you back?
Foreign Minister: The conversations I had with, particularly with China, Korea and Japan, and those are countries who do rely on us for LNG and other commodities. So, we export LNG, we also export iron ore and we export food, is I said, you give us jet fuel and you give us diesel and it comes back to you as natural gas, LNG, and as food and as iron ore, because we need those inputs to keep those industries going. So, ultimately, this is a shared understanding of our energy security and we obtained.
Moore: But would a tax have really upset that?
Foreign Minister: Well, I think the Prime Minister set that out very well in his speech while I was away, he made the point, reliability is an asset and it's an asset upon which you trade. It's an asset that you can use to get better outcomes for your country. And that's what we're doing.
Moore: Minister, just a final subject for questions. News that there are four women and nine children who have apparently on their way back to Australia from Syria. And today Federal Police have said that those Australians with connections to Islamic State, some of them will be arrested when they return here. Can you confirm that Melbourne is their destination? And can you tell us how big a security risk you consider that group to be?
Foreign Minister: First, I want to just refer you to Minister Burke's announcement. I think he issued a statement today confirming 13 members of the Australian cohort in Syria have made plans to travel to Australia. What I would also say is that the AFP Commissioner has said that some of the adults in the group would face arrest and possible charges. And the point I would make is that people in this cohort need to know that if they have committed a crime and return to Australia, they will be met with the full force of the law.
Moore: Are they coming to Melbourne?
Foreign Minister: Look, I'm not in a position to give details of where people are headed. I'll just refer you to –
Moore: Do you know those details? I mean, you must.
Foreign Minister: To be honest, I'm in Fiji and I haven't had a conversation with Minister Burke today, but I would say to you I'm not in a position to pass on details. And what I would say is that we should leave this for the federal police to deal with.
Moore: Senator Penny Wong, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
Foreign Minister: Good to speak with you. Thank you.