Sally Sara, host: Dr. Saya Aziz is an Australian anaesthetist from Brisbane, working at the Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City. Earlier, I spoke to the Foreign Affairs Minister, Penny Wong. I asked her first about Dr. Aziz's concerns about Australia's actions.
Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Well, first I want to thank this very brave medical practitioner for working in Gaza. We are, you know, the, the men and women who work as humanitarian workers in these conflict zones are extraordinarily brave. And as you might recall, we in fact had an event this week at the UN, with 100 other countries. Where we all, where we reiterated our commitment to work to protect humanitarian workers. But look, I'd say this, we all want the war in Gaza to stop, and what is happening in Gaza is unacceptable. It is unacceptable. What I would say is I've just been, literally walked down from, to speak to you from the General Assembly of the United Nations, where President Macron and Saudi Arabia have called a two-state conference. In this attempt for the international community to find a pathway to peace. A conference addressed by Mahmoud Abbas, a conference addressed by many world leaders, and it follows, of course, yesterday, where Australia alongside Canada and the United Kingdom, recognised the State of Palestine. We’ve done that because this is the time to build momentum for peace. We want a ceasefire yesterday and many days before, we've been calling for a ceasefire for a very long time. Australians, as the Prime Minister has said repeatedly, want the killing to stop, and so do we. And that's why we're here.
Sara: Australia is a signatory to the Genocide Convention and it's a convention on the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide. What has Australia done to prevent genocide in Gaza?
Foreign Minister: Well, we have been very clear that Israel does have to comply with the International Court of Justice's advisory opinion. The situation in Gaza has gone beyond the world's worst fears. And the decision by the Government of Israel to stop or constrain food to be delivered to Palestinian civilians is a breach of international law. The PM just said to the world at the General Assembly, at the meeting now, you know, Israel must take responsibility for the role it has played in the lack of aid entering Gaza. Now, we will continue to condemn Israel's denial of aid and the killing of civilians seeking to access water and food. And ultimately Israel will be judged by the International Court of Justice on its compliance with the Genocide Convention.
Sara: What about our compliance with the Genocide Convention? What have we done that has prevented genocide in Gaza?
Foreign Minister: Well, you, you would see what we are trying to do now and what we have done. We have sanctioned Israeli ministers for their part in…
Sara: That’s in connection with the West Bank.
Foreign Minister: … the human rights abuse of Palestinians.
Sara: … in the West Bank.
Foreign Minister: We have been clear, at the United Nations, over and over again, that we want to ceasefire. We're working with other countries to try and build momentum for peace. You know, we have done all these things with …
Sara: Have we sanctioned any Israeli Members of Parliament in connection with Gaza?
Foreign Minister: We have sanctioned two Israeli Ministers in connection with their human rights abuse of Palestinians.
Sara: … in the West Bank
Foreign Minister: Well, Sally, you may think that that is insufficient. We do this with other parties, and we have worked very closely with the United Kingdom and Canada and others to impose these sanctions. So, I understand. Sally, Sally, I understand.
Sara: But to be clear when it comes to Gaza, we haven’t sanctioned any politicians in connection with Gaza? Any Israeli politicians to be clear.
Foreign Minister: And to be clear, neither has any other country. And my point about that is we sanction with others. That is how we have effect. Now, I understand that people are distressed by what is happening in Gaza. I am distressed by it. We all are. But you do what you can. And that is what we are doing, is being here now, with others, working with other countries, all of whom want to see peace. That is what this conference is about. That is what recognition is about. How do we across the world build a pathway to peace at a time when we see, now, these you know that this catastrophe, the killing in Gaza, which is unacceptable.
Sara: Doctor Aziz was also talking specifically about parts for F35 fighter jets. Is it time to review Australia's supply of these parts?
Foreign Minister: OK, let's get the facts very, very clear here. We are not, unlike other countries, we do not supply weapons to the State of Israel. There are countries which do. Australia is not one of them.
Sara: Australian companies provide parts.
Foreign Minister: What we do, let me finish. We are part of the global F35 supply chain. So as part of that, we do contribute components to the global supply chain. Which is managed not by Australia but by Lockheed Martin. And why do we do that Sally? It is because we receive F35s. It is a capability for Australia.
Sara: Is there anything the government could do to stop the supply of parts from Australia to Israel for F35s?
Foreign Minister: We don't supply those parts. They are supplied to Lockheed Martin as part of the F35 supply chain. So, I've made that clear, the Defence Minister has made that clear.
Sara: That’s the Foreign Affairs Minister, Senator Penny Wong there, and you'll hear more from Senator Wong after 8 o’clock this morning. And still to come, Dave Sharma, NSW Senator and former Ambassador to Israel will be my guest. It’s news time now, it’s 8 o’clock.
[Breaks to news]
Sara: G'day and welcome back to Radio National Breakfast. I'm Sally Sara. Coming up, as the fallout from the Optus outage continues, you'll hear from an industry expert there's warning that this is a sign that Australia's telecommunication infrastructure is crumbling. And on changing Australia, look at how the local live music industry is evolving. And what can be done to help it survive? You can send through your thoughts on any of the stories and interviews you're hearing this morning. The text line is open for you. The number that you need is 0418226576. Or send a message via the ABC Listen app. The Federal Opposition leader Sussan Ley has written a letter to Republicans in the United States reassuring them that a Coalition government would reverse Australia's recognition of Palestine. The Prime Minister has made a formal recognition addressing the United Nations General Assembly in New York today. In a moment, you'll hear from NSW Liberal Senator Dave Sharma, but earlier, I asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Penny Wong, about the letter that Sussan Ley has sent to members of Congress in the US.
Foreign Minister: Well, the Opposition of Australia running a rogue foreign policy is not in the nation's interests. You know, we are Australia's strongest when our country speaks with one voice, and I think Australians know that, and it is a pity that Sussan Ley does not.
Sara: What do you mean by that?
Foreign Minister: Well, it is possible to back Australia and still be an effective Opposition. And really, it's time that Ms Ley and the Liberals understood that. We know, we're strongest when we speak with one voice, we all understand that as Australians, and the Opposition should understand that too.
Sara: The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, has just addressed the United Nations General Assembly. How do you reflect on this moment?
Foreign Minister: Well, as I said before, yesterday, we organised an event, the Declaration in honour of Australian aid worker Zomi Frankcom, who was killed in Gaza last year by the Israeli Defence Force, an inexcusable death, and we have worked for the last year on a Declaration for the Protection of Humanitarian Personnel. We've had a hundred countries come together to back that in. So, what I see here, in what we are doing, what the Prime Minister is doing, is countries, many of whom are a very long way from Gaza, who are working to try and find a way to bring about peace in circumstances where the combatants, and certainly the State of Israel, is not seeking to end this conflict, so we are. That's what we're doing. We are trying to work to bring about peace.
Sara: Just finally, how will the federal government determine if genocide is unfolding in Gaza? Will the government wait until there is a determination, formally one way or the other, by the ICJ? Or is the government prepared to make a decision prior to that?
Foreign Minister: Well look, the ICJ has already provided an advisory opinion …
Sara: But a final decision …
Foreign Minister: … and we have repeatedly said. Well, we've repeatedly said that the government, the Netanyahu Government must comply with those provisional orders, and they were made in 2024, so we have been clear about this already.
Sara: That was the Foreign Affairs Minister, Senator Penny Wong.