Bob Carr: Well ladies and gentlemen one of the challenges with a World Heritage Site like this is it gets a lot of visitors but the money they spend often doesn't reach the local people.
Within easy reach of a site like this-that generates so many visitors- you have got people living in poverty. We want to have a plan that sees more of the money spent by tourists go to struggling local communities. We think this is one of the most effective forms of Australian aid. We can develop a plan - working with locals, working with heritage experts - that sees more of the money spent by tourists go to local businesses and local families. They can be the beneficiaries.
I think Australians who come here and know the significance of this World Heritage site would welcome the fact that their government has helped see that locals get the benefit of tourism. Too much tourism in the developing world sees the benefit go to others and not the locals. One of the friendliest things Australia can do is see that local families living in poverty would get the benefit of the tourist dollar. We're doing the same in Siem Reap in Cambodia. It's an identical program. I've inspected it and I think it offers the same hope and the same promise. I'd like an UNESCO perspective on this.
UNESCO Jakarta Director Hubert Gijzen: Thank you Minister. I very much subscribe to your message. I think it is important that we look at the long term preservation of monuments like Borobudur which is an item amongst the World Heritage program of UNESCO.
If you look at Borobudur, built in the ninth century, it is a Buddhist monument but embedded in a largely Muslim community. In principal there isn't a direct connection with the community. But that connection comes from the economic potential it brings to the surrounding communities.
So the involvement-in terms of livelihoods support and development of creative industry around Borobudur and engaged communities-is I think a very effective way to contribute to the long term sustainability of the monument. And in that sense we very much look forward to cooperation with AusAID and the Australian Government in order to support the program.
Bob Carr: Thank you.
Question: Mr Carr how does the program work?
Bob Carr: We're going to see plans to have locals to provide food and provide handicrafts and to provide guidance to meet the demands of tourists-to build them into it. Plans that would see local businesses favoured when it comes to the provision of these services. Plans to see tourists directed to, steered through, local business activity. The objective is going to see the tourist dollar help do away with poverty in the adjacent area.
Question: So what happens now? All the stores are set up once you walk out of the temple area-are they not run by locals? Is that the case? How will you direct more of the money to local organisations?
Mr Gijzen: Well there are a lot of stalls around but many of these stalls don't always sell the locally made products. Sometimes the sticker 'made in China' is still on the bottom.
So the idea is to really develop the local products and to assist community members to develop their skills further, because people are very creative here-we know that. But they just haven't been able to get to produce those local products.
Maybe interesting is that some of the products that would be made are products coming from lava ashes. So they would use the lava ashes to produce small Borobudur replicas from that and sell them to the tourists.
Question: Senator can we just ask-you've spoken on Syria this morning. Isn't it about time that there was more action? The UN doesn't seem to be able to get anything concrete done. We seem to have a coalition of the unwilling or coalition of the unable. Do we need more than resolutions?
Bob Carr: Well we can only get international action by getting a resolution of the UN Security Council. And that means getting Russia to support a resolution of the UN Security Council. To enable the application of tougher sanctions, tougher than those which are the sum total of what individual countries are doing, we need UN sanctions and we can only do that through a Security Council resolution.
So again we make a plea to the better instincts of the Russian Government for Russiato fulfil a global role, a humanitarian global role-for Russia to act as the massacres accumulate. We're seeing an escalation of massacres in Syria. That's a disaster. And Russian action is indispensable. We cannot get concerted international action unless we get it through a resolution of the Security Council.
Question: Sorry Foreign Minister, do you rule out action like was done in Libya though?
Bob Carr: Yes, for the host of reasons that I think we're all familiar with. But in any case, what happened in Libya occurred under the mandate of the Security Council. The Security Council resolution mandated the NATO intervention. Now you haven't got any prospect of a Security Council resolution doing something even much more modest, which is the application of sanctions, unless you've got the support of Russia.
Question: The Syrian Government maintains that it carried out a military operation against what it's calling terrorist people. What's your response to that?
Bob Carr: My response to that is to say the best way of clarifying who is responsible is in the context of a ceasefire. That means the government in Damascus has the greater responsibility for enforcing a ceasefire-it has the stronger forces.
With a ceasefire you can speak to the people who witness a massacre. With a ceasefire you have international organisations-pre-eminently the UN-go in there and assess what happened. With a ceasefire you have the International Criminal Court begin collecting evidentiary statements. But without a ceasefire you won't have the clear atmosphere in which you can determine who bears the overwhelming responsibility.
Question: Is it clear in your mind that the Assad regime must go through, that he must step aside?
Bob Carr: President Assad must go. And the way of getting rid of him is for Russia to exert its influence in Damascus and for Russia to vote in favour of comprehensive sanctions in the UN Security Council.
With him gone you can have negotiations between other components of the regime in Damascus and the opposition, all elements of the opposition-the Syrian National Council with whom I've spoken and which was represented at the Paris conference, and those fighting in Syria on the ground. So, ceasefire and negotiations as an alternative to violence.
Question: But nothing seems to be working at the moment. For instance activists say these latest casualties, that's the highest death tolls in an attack since the uprising began. It seems the situation's escalated.
Bob Carr: The tragedy is we're looking at an escalation of massacres. That's why I appeal again to Russia.
Russia is going to be trapped in defending a regime that is allowing massacre after massacre unless it breaks with Assad now and enables a transition to an interim governing council, as the conference in Geneva prescribed. And with an interim council you can commence work on a constitution and under an interim council you can work towards free and fair elections that will enable the Syrian people themselves to determine what government they want.
Question: Realistically what will Australian diplomacy achieve?
Bob Carr: We can make a contribution. We can make a contribution talking to the UN. We can make a contribution, we hope, talking to Russian representation in Canberra, and we're doing both of those things. The alternative is doing nothing.
Question: In terms of tangibles from your visit to Indonesia, what do you hope to achieve with Marty Natalegawa tomorrow.
Bob Carr: Let's talk about that tomorrow.
Question: Minister, coming back to Borobudur, can you explain again what exactly Australia is doing to actuallyaid this part of the country?
Bob Carr: We're developing a plan that will see the people who live in poverty around this great World Heritage site get a share of the tourist dollar.
We'll see them benefit by providing the food, the tours, the handicrafts, that at the present time they're not getting that money. They're not seeing that money. I think Australian visitors to this site would want to see local people currently living in poverty benefit from the tourist dollar.
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