Transcript of interview with Helen Dalley - Sky News

Subjects: Trade union officials denied entry to Fiji; Papua New Guinea; domestic politics

Transcript E&OE, proof only.

13 December 2011

HELEN DALLEY: Officials from Australian and New Zealand trade unions have been kicked out of Fiji and forced to return home.

Members of the ACTU were there to meet with local employees to investigate the alleged abuse of workers' rights. The Fijian government says the delegation was refused entry into the country, arguing its investigation would not be fair or objective.

And for more on this we are joined now live from New York by Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd. Mr Rudd, thanks very much for joining us.

Now, you've expressed concern about Fiji's actions to refuse entry to the president of the ACTU, Ged Kearney, and senior union officials from both Australia and New Zealand. What precisely are your concerns?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, they go into two or three categories, Helen.

The first is, remember the Fiji military regime has invited people from around the world to come and inspect the situation on the ground in Fiji so they can form their own conclusions, well, the president of the ACTU, Ged Kearney, and New Zealand colleagues sought precisely to do that and then they were denied entry.

Secondly, having been denied entry they were then refused access to consular support from the Australian mission in Suva.

And, thirdly, they had their mobile phones confiscated and therefore were unable to communicate with anybody, to make calls or to receive calls.

This is outrageous behaviour on the part of the Fiji military regime, particularly given the regime has in recent times been cracking down further on Fijian trade union leaders.

In fact, they recently sought to charge the president of the Fijian trade union movement with efforts to overthrow by violence the Fiji military regime, not to mention their other draconian labour laws which are designed to suppress the rights of working people in Fiji as well.

HELEN DALLEY: So isn't this yet more evidence, I guess that's what you're really saying, that Fiji is not only thumbing its nose at its nearest neighbours and to some scrutiny from outsiders from democratic countries, that it's actually — you've called it the military regime — that it's actually thumbing its nose at democratic institutions and practices?

KEVIN RUDD: This has been going on for some time. I mean, some people criticised the Australia and New Zealand governments for taking a hard line with the military regime in Fiji. I just remind everybody that this is not a pleasant regime.

It has suspended the constitution.

It has sacked the judiciary.

It has suspended press freedom.

It has expelled journalists.

It has now sought to physically and militarily and legally intimidate the leaders of the trade union movement.

It's suspended the operations of many of the churches who have sought to meet peacefully in their own internal discussions about how to deal with the political situation in Fiji.

And now we have this action against a visiting delegation of Australian and New Zealand trade unionists.

This behaviour continues to be outrageous. It's fundamentally in violation of all United Nations covenants on civil and political rights. It's incompatible with the UN Human Rights Declaration and, furthermore, it represents contempt for the people of Fiji who have to suffer at the hands of the regime.

HELEN DALLEY: Well, Mr Rudd, you say you're taking a hard line. What exactly are you doing about this?

KEVIN RUDD: The thing which the Fiji regime object to most of all is the fact that Australia and New Zealand have led the regional and global political effort to diplomatically isolate Fiji.

Fiji has sought constantly to obtain re-access to the Pacific Island Forum. We, together with the New Zealanders, have argued to the contrary. The Pacific Island countries have backed our position.

Similarly with the Commonwealth, the Commonwealth met again recently, all 54 member states, in Perth, and these are countries drawn from across the developing world, from Africa, from Asia, from the Caribbean and, frankly, many of the Commonwealth countries have a more hardline position on the Fiji military regime's suspension of basic human rights within the country than even we do and we have therefore obtained their continued suspension from the Commonwealth.

These two matters hurt within domestic Fijian politics because both the Pacific Island Forum and access to the Commonwealth mean a lot in the internal political discussion within Fiji itself.

HELEN DALLEY: So when do you actually expect and when and how much pressure are you putting on Fiji to actually move to be much more democratic than it is?

KEVIN RUDD: We've been a process of constant dialogue, largely through the Pacific Island Forum secretariat but also through other diplomatic channels, to invite the Fijians back to the table in terms of a proper, realistic, believable timetable to hold democratic elections and each time there seems to be some small movement on this question, the military regime then backs away at a million miles away — a million miles an hour, I should say.

HELEN DALLEY: So essentially we have no power or you have no power in being able to pressure them to move to that democratic sort of state that you want?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, our tool at our disposal is that of diplomatic action and we do so in coordination with other states.

Remember there are 15 members of the Pacific Island Forum, 13 of whom are island countries and there is a virtually unanimous view across the Pacific that this is unacceptable behaviour, within the Pacific Island family which has been strongly condemnatory of the efforts by the military regime in Fiji to hold onto power whatever the cost.

HELEN DALLEY: Minister, the situation in Papua New Guinea also seems confused and potentially volatile. What can you tell us about what's happening there? What do you know of the latest?

KEVIN RUDD: Over the course of the last 24, 48 hours, I've been in regular contact with our High Commissioner in Port Moresby, High Commissioner Kemish, a highly experienced Australian diplomat, and I spoke with him, it would have been not more than half an hour ago, again, probably for the third of fourth time today, working through precisely what is happening on the ground.

He reports that the situation on the streets in Port Moresby remains calm.

There has been a report of one demonstration on Goroka and, on top of that, of course at the political level, the Governor-General has now embarked upon a process of direct consultation both with Mr O'Neill and with Sir Michael Somare.

The meeting with O'Neill occurred during the course of today. My advice is the meeting with Somare will occur during the course of tomorrow.

HELEN DALLEY: I can't let you go before asking you about the cabinet reshuffle, Julia Gillard's cabinet reshuffle. Do you agree with many that some of your supporters got shafted?

KEVIN RUDD: Helen, I just don't propose to be involved in any of the public commentary on these matters.

As I've said in other interviews, the decision on the composition of the Australian Cabinet is entirely the prerogative of the Prime Minister. That was the case in the period when I was in that position, that is the case now.

What I do know is that our job collectively is to work in Australia's national interests and my responsibility right now is to defend our national interest when it comes to some of these disturbing developments in the wider south-west Pacific and we've just been speaking about them both in Fiji and PNG, important relationships for Australia.

HELEN DALLEY: So, Foreign Minister, are you completely happy that this cabinet is the best, the strongest, the sharpest cabinet to go into 2012 which is a pretty crucial year, the pre-election year?

KEVIN RUDD: Again, Helen, I don't propose to make commentary about ministers who now have different positions than they did before or those who have come in. This is entirely a matter for the Prime Minister, it's entirely within her prerogative and that's a prerogative I respect.

HELEN DALLEY: All right, Mr Rudd, we do appreciate your time.

Thanks for joining us from what I understand is a very cold New York.

KEVIN RUDD: Thanks very much, Helen.

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