Interview with Bill Bainbridge, Radio Australia

Subjects: ASEAN Regional Forum; asylum seekers, Malaysian negotiations; PNG discussions; South China Sea

Transcript, E&OE, proof only

22 July 2011

BILL BAINBRIDGE: To the Indonesian island of Bali now, where ASEAN foreign ministers have been meeting. They're about to be joined by their counterparts from the United States, North and South Korea, Russia, China, Japan and many others for the ASEAN Regional Forum. That's the 27 member group and it's the principle forum for a security dialogue in Asia.

Australia's representative at the talks is Foreign Minister, Kevin Rudd who joins me on the line now from Bali.

Kevin Rudd, welcome to Radio Australia.

KEVIN RUDD: Thank you for having me on the program.

BILL BAINBRIDGE: Mr Rudd, the ASEAN regional forum in a moment. But first, this morning we've had reports that the asylum seeker deal in Malaysia is now ready to be signed. We're expecting that to be signed perhaps on Monday. Can you confirm that, and while you've been there in Bali, have you been discussing it with your Malaysian counterpart?

KEVIN RUDD: Well first and foremost, this is a matter for the Immigration Minister Chris Bowen on the [break in transmission] with Malaysia's [break in transmission] of this agreement. I'll let him speak for that.

On the other part of your question which is whether I've been in discussions with the Malaysians about it here, no I have not yet had a bilateral with the Malaysians since I've been here at the ASEAN Regional Forum, or prospect of the East Asia Summit. But primarily these matters lie with the Immigration Minister and his counterpart in Malaysia.

BILL BAINBRIDGE: You did say yesterday though you'd do anything that you could to help in terms of the discussions with Papua New Guinea and the reopening of an offshore processing facility there. Have you managed to have any discussions with PNG officials while you're there? And have you made any progress?

KEVIN RUDD: I spent part of yesterday in a long discussion with the Papua New Guinea Foreign Minister. This was a good discussion because as you may or may not know, he has only taken office a few weeks ago.

There are changes in political and institutional arrangements in Port Moresby at present owing to the long term illness of Chief Minister Sir Michael Somare.

This was an opportunity for me and the PNG Foreign Minister to run through a whole range of cooperation areas that we have underway at the moment, including the Australia Papua New Guinea Development Assistance Program. What in particular we're doing in the area of education and the long term reform for the PNG school system; the long term reform of the PNG higher education system.

In addition to that of course, we discussed in the broadest possible terms, the possibility of cooperation with PNG in the area of processing asylum seekers.

But we are very, very cautious, that is Australia, in proceeding too far down this path given that this is a period of some political uncertainty in Port Moresby until arrangements are formally concluded concerning the government of that country, the prime ministership, senior ministers, etcetera.

BILL BAINBRIDGE: So, in his opening remarks, Indonesia's President, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono warned that the turbulence in the Middle East could spark a fresh wave of asylum seekers who are fleeing war and persecution. Is the region actually prepared for that if it indeed does come to pass?

KEVIN RUDD: Well our region is more prepared than any of the other 12 or 13 regions around world with dealing with asylum seeker challenges. And first and foremost we take our responsibility seriously under the Refugee Convention.

Secondly, what we've done in our part of the world is through the Bali Process, we developed in March this year what's called the Bali Framework Agreement, which is the first regional framework agreement anywhere in the world for handling any large influx of asylum seekers from around the world.

It incorporates within it the principles of international humanitarian law. It incorporates within it, the possibility of regional processing centres. It incorporates within it a whole series of other practical arrangements as well. And that is the first regional agreement of its type anywhere in the world.

So to answer your question, we are better positioned than any other part of the world to handle this should it arise.

BILL BAINBRIDGE: So ASEAN and China have agreed on preliminary guidelines for cooperation in the South China Sea. But those guidelines appear to be pretty weak. Are you disappointed with that agreement?

KEVIN RUDD: Well this has been very much a three stage process which began almost nine years ago. And the South China Sea is of relevance, not just to the countries of ASEAN and China, but of relevance to all of us given that it sees a huge proportion of the world's trade traverse its waters.

Therefore we all have an interest to ensure that competing territorial claims and the maritime use of that zone of water is managed in a way in which is not just peaceful, but also in accordance with the principles of international law including UN Convention and Law of the Sea.

And the three stage process I referred to before, some years ago the ASEANs and China agree on what is called a Declaration of Conduct. The second stage in the process was the development of guidelines which come out of the Declaration of Conduct.

That was agreed by ASEAN and Chinese foreign ministers yesterday.

The third stage is develop a much more detailed code of conduct for freedom of navigation and the proper protocols for the exploration of natural resources, together with ways in which competing territorial claims can be processed peacefully and in accordance with international law as well.

That's the next piece of work. And I think having spoken to many of my ASEAN colleagues, they've got their sleeves up, rolled up, ready to do this next important task in order to preserve the peace and security of our wider region.

BILL BAINBRIDGE: So does that need to be a more binding declaration of conduct with more teeth in it - I mean at the moment there aren't too many consequences but for not following this Declaration of Conduct?

KEVIN RUDD: Your point is right. The guidelines which have been agreed yesterday are not binding. A code of conduct would be binding. So the next, and substantial piece of work is to develop such a binding code of conduct.

This is important, given the conflicting territorial claims within the South China Sea, and it involves not just the Chinese but of course the Vietnamese, the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, and others; therefore it's important that this is done properly, professionally, rationally, and in a manner which is consistent with long-established principles of international law including the UN Convention on Law of the Sea, which was agreed in 1982.

BILL BAINBRIDGE: As you mentioned it’s also vital to the interests of not just those countries directly concerned - something like a third of the world's shipping transits through its - through those waters in the South China Sea.

Are we going to see some serious pressure coming from Hillary Clinton and other international leaders who are there in Bali to really come up with some sort of permanent and lasting solution?

KEVIN RUDD: Well this is first and foremost a responsibility for the ASEANs and China to resolve themselves. That's the process [indistinct] way because [indistinct] but not exclusively, it is a matter for peacefully resolving competing territorial claims within the South China Sea.

Of course there are other areas which need to be worked on as well - including the maintenance of wider freedom of navigation within the South China Sea as well as appropriate protocols for the exploration and possible exploitation of natural resources within the region in the absence of a final determination of territorial claims.

Now this is what falls within the remit of the so-called code of conduct. Obviously other countries are going to have a view on this as well including the United States and its long-standing support for the principles of freedom of navigation worldwide; Australia because such a large amount of trade goes through the South China Sea to the major markets of North East Asia - China itself, Korea, as well as Japan, and other countries including India, whose trade with North East Asia also traverses these waters.

For all countries who are non ASEAN members but whose vital economic interests lie also in the ability to traverse these waters peacefully in pursuit of commerce and freedom of navigation, we'll all have our views - including the Americans.

And the business of diplomacy is to inject those views effectively so that we get the best possible outcome for all parties.

BILL BAINBRIDGE: Mmm. But if the diplomacy doesn't succeed, I mean, you know, there's this constant sort of low-level sniping that goes on in the area and provocations by the various countries, Vietnam against China, and the Philippines, so on - is it really possible that this could lead to some sort of serious conflict?

KEVIN RUDD: Well our view in Australia has always been that the South China Sea because it represents longstanding conflicting territorial claims, and has seen violence in the past, that we - the international community - and as a regional community in particular have to do everything we can to develop a series of cooperative arrangements which underpin [indistinct] use of these waters and resources that lie within them.

That is what we're on about.

Mistakes therefore [indistinct] significant long-term[indistinct] focus of regional diplomacy at present. And there's [indistinct] work to be done, but Australia will be playing its part to the extent that we can with our friends [indistinct].

BILL BAINBRIDGE: Mr Rudd, I'm sorry to jump in there, but we're… our line to Bali there is breaking up. We're only getting about every third word.

So thank you very much for your time this morning. We'll have to leave it there.

END

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