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FRAN KELLY: Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd is back in Canberra this morning following a weekend visit to Burma where he met with pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi.

After this week's session of parliament he'll head to Jakarta, where he'll spearhead the Prime Minister's so-called Team Australia approach to ending the ban on live cattle exports to Indonesia.

Kevin Rudd is in our Parliament House studio; Minister, good morning.

KEVIN RUDD: Good morning, Fran.

FRAN KELLY: You lunched with Aung San Suu Kyi in Rangoon over the weekend; how's her mood and how much political freedom does she have in terms of movement and speech?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, she's in very high spirits; she's a strong and determined woman; as I said over the weekend, also with a remarkable sense of humour given what she's been through in recent years.

She's focussed on the future democratic transformation of her country.

Within Yangon, or Rangoon, the capital of the country, she gets around quite a lot. She's fully engaged with locals and with international NGOs, et cetera.

Elsewhere in the country will be the test. If she follows through with her plan to campaign elsewhere within Burma, then this would be breaking new ground. And, as I said yesterday, I think the Burmese Government has a fundamental responsibility to guarantee her security if she proceeds with that plan.

FRAN KELLY: And she's planning to proceed, from your talk to her?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, I don't want to describe the position of the National League for Democracy or of Aung San Suu Kyi; that's for them to decide. But she was fairly plain that that's what her intentions were; and the timing of it, that's entirely a matter for the NLD.

It's still a very difficult operating environment and, of course, Aung San Suu Kyi is one democratic political leader - an exceptionally important one - central to the future of democratic processes in that country.

There are other democratic leaders as well; and we have 2,000 political prisoners still in jail in Burma. And we have made it very plain, directly and bluntly, to the President of Burma that the first and necessary step of the Burmese Government is to release those prisoners.

FRAN KELLY: We'll move on, Foreign Minister; there's a lot of issues for a foreign minister this morning, Kevin Rudd.

Thailand went to the polls yesterday, electing their first female prime minister ever and the first elections since the Red Shirts anti-government protest last year. Will this result be good for Thailand? Can it be a unifying vote in your view?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, firstly, we should congratulate Prime Minister Abhisit, the outgoing Prime Minister of Thailand, and his Democracy Party for having the courage to call an early election to take Thailand forward, given the period of enormous political instability which has occurred in recent times in that country.

Thailand is a country of huge significance to Australia; a major trading partner, major security partner within the region.

Of course, we in the Australian Government would congratulate the Prime Minister-elect; we would also congratulate her political party, the Pheu Thai Party, for its success in obtaining, it seems, 255 seats out of the 500 in the Thai Parliament.

As for the future, this is going to be very much a step-by-step process. Of course, the complication arrives with the Prime Minister-elect's brother, Thaksin Shinawatra, who remains in exile, given his previous conviction under Thai law of corruption; and that will be an important factor to watch in the future.

But let us support the peaceful conduct of these elections, support the peaceful - apparently peaceful - transition to power, the gracious nature of Prime Minister Abhisit's concession speech yesterday, and let us support the Thais through what will be some challenging times ahead.

FRAN KELLY: Minister, can I go to the live cattle export ban to Indonesia now? The impasse on the cattle trade has dragged into its fourth week; you're going to Jakarta at the end of this week. Where are deliberations at?

KEVIN RUDD: I spoke at length with our Ambassador Moriarty in Jakarta last night, as I've been speaking with him or the embassy during the course of the week; and I had the opportunity during the last week of meeting quite extensively with Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa of Indonesia as we were both attending the same conference of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference.

This is a complex set of negotiations and we're moving through them methodically, through the Agriculture Minister Joe Ludwig, the Trade Minister Craig Emerson, and myself, dealing with my own counterpart.

Plainly, the issues at stake are these, Fran - one: the implementation of agreed international standards consistent with OIE standards which guarantee animal welfare in Indonesia; two: it goes to the certification of individual supply chains - so within Indonesia - based on those standards, so that we are confident that animal welfare is being guaranteed, and this would provide a basis for the early return of the Australian export industry.

Of course, this is a half billion dollar industry for Australia; many Australian farmers are hurting; many Indonesian consumers are hurting because the impact of beef prices within that country.

And you're right to say this is a Team Australia effort. We three ministers are working very closely with our counterparts in Jakarta, and I'll continue that process in Jakarta when I get there on Friday.

FRAN KELLY: Team Australia now, but are you happy with the way this has been handled? And should you have been more on the frontline of this, given that Indonesia is our closest and one of our closest and important neighbours - the suggestion that you weren't as involved as perhaps you should have been or could have been?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, this is a government decision and my job within the government is to make sure that we can give proper effect to government decisions when they impact on our international partners.

Indonesia is one of our most important partners, both in foreign policy, security policy, but also economic policy terms. And that's why over the last three to four weeks I have met on a number of occasions now with Marty Natalegawa, the Indonesian Foreign Minister, to make sure that he is apprised of each step that we are taking to try and resolve this impasse, both to deal with the real animal welfare issues which were at stake in this negotiation, as well as the earliest possible resumption of the trade, given the impact on families across Australia.

FRAN KELLY: How early do you think that trade could be resumed, given we read today that Indonesia has put a hold on the issuing of the next three months of export permits?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, I spoke to Ambassador Moriarty about this last night, given the fact that he is our point man in Indonesia; he's a very good Indonesianist; he understands the country very well, speaks the language. And he had extensive meetings with the Agriculture Minister and others in Jakarta on Friday.

The release of the statement over the last several days by the Indonesian Agriculture Ministry concerning import licences was not a surprise to Australian officials. It applies to all imports, not just Australian, and it does not preclude the possibility of import licences being issued by the Indonesians in the period ahead.

What we need to do however is to quickly grapple with the issues I referred to before: standards; certification; resumption of the trade, getting with that animal welfare issues; and, of course, getting this market back functioning properly as it should be.

FRAN KELLY: A couple of issues now, just the carbon price, the Prime Minister announced yesterday the carbon tax would not apply to petrol for ordinary motorists, when you were Prime Minister, and you had the CPRS, petrol was exempt, but only for three years.

Considering transport contributes 17 per cent of greenhouse emissions, do you think it's right and smart for the Government to put a permanent ban on keeping petrol out of the carbon price?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, the first thing to say is that the Government, unlike the Opposition, is committed to putting a price on carbon, and that has been our consistent position since the Government which I led was elected way back in 2007.

We put the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme to the Australian Senate and the Australian Parliament twice, and twice it was rejected by the Opposition. And the same Opposition Leader, Mr Abbott, continues to basically conduct one political stunt after another, rather than addressing the core issues of how we deal with global warming.

On the specific question of motor fuel, we've made our position clear in the past, because of its impact on consumers, that it was appropriate to exempt it from the regime, the Prime Minister has indicated over the weekend that that exemption would also be the case under the scheme which she has put forward, and I believe given the price pressures on consumers, the price pressures on working families right across Australia, and that the family car is just so critical to peoples' ability to do their job, drop the kids at school, this is the right decision.

One final thought on this as well - Mr Abbott, Captain Stunt, is out there for the last three, four months now, on dozens of occasions, telling Australian consumers that the price of petrol would skyrocket under our proposal to put a price on carbon. Well, he's wrong, and he should have the guts, and be manly enough, to admit the fact that he was wrong.

FRAN KELLY: It's eight minutes to eight on Radio National Breakfast, our guest this morning is Foreign Minister, Kevin Rudd.

Kevin Rudd, the Fairfax papers this morning reveal that 10 years ago the Australian Defence Force and the US Army, military, were in disagreement as to whether Iraqi and Afghan insurgents should be granted Geneva Convention POW protections in Iraq and Afghanistan, we're talking about, Australia thought, yes, George Bush had a different description of them, but these differences were papered over by something referred to as the Afghan Model, where Australians basically, if our soldiers did pick up prisoners of war, they were deemed to be captured by Americans.

Do you have a view on this, especially since there are reports in the paper suggesting that at least one prisoner, apparently apprehended by our SAS soldiers, was then beaten to death, basically, the allegation goes, by British troops, when we handed the prisoner over?

KEVIN RUDD: Was this in Iraq, or Afghanistan, Fran?

FRAN KELLY: This was an Iranian - this was an Iranian detainee, presumably in Afghanistan, I think, yes.

KEVIN RUDD: Well, I'm uncertain of the surrounding circumstances, so I won't comment on the individual case.

On the general principle, you might recall way back in the dim, distant past, when the decision was taken to invade Iraq, a decision which we the Labor Party opposed at the time, that once the Howard Government made that decision to invade Iraq, together with the Americans, and together with the Brits, that one of the first calls we made was for the proper application of the relevant Geneva Conventions, one of which deals with the proper protection of prisoners.

That was consistently our position on the record then, and as of course we all know, we had the subsequent appalling set of circumstances concerning the Abu Ghraib prison.

The reason why we also said Australia had a responsibility at the time for this, was that for that initial period in Iraq, we also had under international law, the status of Australia being an occupying power, together with the US and the UK, and therefore, under the Geneva Convention, we had direct responsibility for the wellbeing not just of the civilian population, but also the wellbeing of any prisoners who were captured.

So on the details of the circumstances described in this morning's press, I will not comment, they are the principles however which applied, and I remember very clearly Prime Minister Howard at the time, ducking and weaving around any such question put to him by me and others in the then Opposition, about Australia's legal responsibilities, once we'd taken the extraordinary decision to invade that country.

FRAN KELLY: And just finally minister, on the awarding of the Australian Network contract, that's the Government-funded overseas television service, why has the decision been delayed, the tender process extended, and is the Government reluctant to give it to SKY TV, to give it to part-Rupert Murdoch-owned SKY TV?

KEVIN RUDD: Well the first thing to say is that we will work our way through, as a Government, the process which involves obviously a tender evaluation board, and of course the deliberations of Cabinet itself.

I think it's important to emphasise that over the last six months, since the original guidelines for tender have been issued, that we also face, in the international environment, some change in circumstances, most particularly in relation to what is happening in the Middle East.

If at the end of last year we could all predict that the Middle East would be turned upside down, and that we as Australia would face a rolling set of consular crises in the Middle East, and therefore the ability to contact thousands of Australians in a range of Middle Eastern countries, then of course we would have framed the guidelines a little more differently.

Therefore, one of the factors bearing on Cabinet's mind was how to incorporate those new considerations into the tender evaluation process, and given that Cabinet collectively has a deep interest in the future of this service, which is fundamental to Australia's whole range of international interests, not just our foreign policy interests, then of course it's appropriate for Cabinet to deliberate.

FRAN KELLY: Why is it appropriate then for the decision not to rest with you and your department, as is usual, in terms of the Australian Network, it's now shifted as I understand it, to the Communications Department, and Minister Stephen Conroy?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, I'm a member of the Australian Government, I support the Government's decisions, and it's entirely appropriate for Cabinet to work its way through the range of policy factors, including international policy factors, including those I've just referred to, in framing its view.

That is entirely appropriate, and of course, as we know historically, the Communications Minister has a range of responsibilities in this area, and therefore it is appropriate for him, as it is for other ministers of the Government, including the Finance Minister and others, to ultimately be the decision-maker on this.

But ultimately, what's important here is for Cabinet to deliberate. This is an important service for Australia. It's important that we get it right. It's important that we get our messages of who contemporary Australia is, out to the region, including the Middle East, where we have massive political, security, economic and consular interests, with so many Australians living in the area.

So if it takes a little longer, if it takes a wider Cabinet deliberation, well, well and good.

FRAN KELLY: Kevin Rudd, thank you very much for joining us on Breakfast.

KEVIN RUDD: Thanks very much for having me on the program, Fran.

FRAN KELLY: Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd, in our Parliament House studios.

END

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