2SM Breakfast with Grant Goldman

Subjects: Death of Osama bin Laden.

Transcript, E&OE, proof only

3 May 2011

GRANT GOLDMAN: The Australian Foreign Minister, Kevin Rudd, has congratulated the US on the secret military operation that killed al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. Mr Rudd, who met with the US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, in Washington a short time ago, also reaffirmed Australia's troop commitment in Afghanistan.

Kevin Rudd is on the line right now. Good morning, Mr Rudd.

Good morning.

KEVIN RUDD: Good morning, thanks for having me on your program.

GRANT GOLDMAN: No, that's fine. Look, as Foreign Minister you've been very, very busy of late and of course today with this big news of yesterday, what was your reaction when you first heard?

KEVIN RUDD: I think one of deep satisfaction. Here in Washington DC this was a city under attack less than a decade ago when terrorist-controlled aircraft slammed into the side of the Pentagon building not more than a couple of kilometres away from where I am now.

The city itself, upon hearing the news, there was a deep sense of satisfaction here as well in addition to the reaction in New York.

GRANT GOLDMAN: We've heard a couple of people talking about how sporting commitments to America and a few other places have been cancelled and people have said, okay, I'll decide not to take a trip right now. Is the terror risk greater today for Australians abroad than it was two days ago?

KEVIN RUDD: First of all, we have, on the basis of our security and intelligence authorities, not adjusted the terrorist threat warning for Australians at home. It remains at medium where it's been for a long, long time.

Secondly, for Australians travelling abroad generally what we have done is simply insert into travel advisories that they should remain vigilant about the possibility of terrorist activity while abroad and continue to consult the Foreign Affairs travel website to confirm any other terrorist alerts which might be particular to the countries they're going to.

GRANT GOLDMAN: So we're not going to trot out John Howard's old slogan: be alert not alarmed? [Laughs]

KEVIN RUDD: No, we try and be as measured and as disciplined about this as possible and so what we're doing is taking each piece of advice from the agencies and reflecting on that and inserting that directly into the travel advisories, as appropriate around the world.

Of course we've told our embassies abroad to be also on the ball in terms of their own security, given what's happened in the last 24 hours.

GRANT GOLDMAN: Just thinking about our relationship with Pakistan, our relationship with Pakistan hasn't been all that bad over the years but are there questions being asked by our government — certainly the United States, as you know — about Pakistan's role in supporting and perhaps even protecting bin Laden?

KEVIN RUDD: There are a couple of things to be said about that. I've spoken today with both the Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, and the Secretary of Defense, Bob Gates at the Pentagon. I think it's important just to bear in mind that certainly the Secretary of State has indicated that the Pakistanis have been instrumental in — in elements of this operation. I think that's pretty important.

And, secondly, I think it's fair to say that there are still unanswered questions about knowledge of the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan over the last period of time.

The United States of course will be pursuing those with the government in Islamabad.

GRANT GOLDMAN: I was just wondering, I mean, obviously you'd like to feel safe in your own country and you wonder how closely our government cooperates with the United States on the supposed terror threats in this region, I mean, how much intelligence-sharing is there with the United States?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, the bottom line is governments of multiple political persuasions over decades now have refused to comment on intelligence matters and that's entirely appropriate and it applies to us as well.

What we've said publicly many times before is that our security relationship with the United States is the bedrock of Australian foreign and security policy and it also contains within it a very strong and important for Australia intelligence relationship and so that we have as many eyes and ears possible trained on events around the world which affect Australia's national interests and that includes the wellbeing of Australians abroad.

GRANT GOLDMAN: Yeah. In the supposed war on terror, I mean, is this is a big success story for it or is it just more of the same, really, different leader?

KEVIN RUDD: I think there are two parts to that. When you have someone responsible for mass murder as Osama bin Laden has been through his leadership of al-Qaeda, and the attacks not just in New York and Washington and the fields of Pennsylvania but in London, in Madrid and, of course, in Bali where the bombers were in large part trained in Afghanistan, it's important that we have a common resolve to bring these people to justice.

It might take us a decade. We've got to get there in the end because we can't allow mass murderers to get off scot-free.

GRANT GOLDMAN: Yeah.

KEVIN RUDD: But the other part to it is this, and you're right to ask the question, there's always going to be a continuing challenge about where terrorist organisations go to in the future. That's why our agencies have to remain vigilant in tracking every piece of information as they have been doing in recent years in cooperation with our friends, our partners, our allies around the world, so that we maximise our security. We can never remove the threat altogether but our job is to maximise our security and that's what we're committed to doing.

GRANT GOLDMAN: There you go. Thanks for taking the time this morning. Appreciate that.

KEVIN RUDD: All the best.

GRANT GOLDMAN: Thank you. Foreign Minister, Kevin Rudd.

End

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