Interview with Neil Mitchell, Radio 3AW

Transcript, E&OE, proof only

Subjects: Japan earthquake, Wikileaks, domestic politics

15 March 2011

KEVIN RUDD: Good morning, Neil.

NEIL MITCHELL: What's your advice? How serious is this nuclear problem?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, we've been briefed by the Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety Agency. They have responsibility within the Australian government to provide us with technical advice on these matters. They're in close connection with the International Atomic Energy Agency and both of them are analysing the data as it comes out of Japan.

Here's the best summary of where it's up to as of five o'clock this morning, based on ARPANSA, that's the acronym for that very long-sounding Australian name that I referred to before.

NEIL MITCHELL: Yeah.

KEVIN RUDD: One, they're concerned that all three units at Fukushima Site 1 — it's called Daiichi, the name of this reactor - are at risk of continued what's called hydrogen generation, potentially resulting in further explosions of the type which your listeners would have seen on their television screens.

NEIL MITCHELL: Yeah.

KEVIN RUDD: Furthermore, current information suggests that the containment is still intact at Fukushima Site Number 1 which contains within it units 1, 2 and 3.

Yesterday, there was an explosion, as your listeners would be aware, at Fukushima Site 1 at Unit 3 which injured six persons. In addition Unit 2 lost its cooling capabilities which replicates the similar phase we've seen in units 1 and 3.

Furthermore, the area within 20 kilometres of the Fukushima nuclear facility which is about 270km north-east of Tokyo has been evacuated as a precautionary measure. Australians are urged to follow exactly the same advice themselves and also, as a precaution, Japanese authorities are distributing stable iodine to those near the plant, which mitigates any health risk.

We asked specifically of the Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety Agency yesterday whether any further adjustment to our own travel advisory concerning that 20 kilometre radius should be made. They advised that, based on information to hand, such an adjustment was not necessary at this time.

So that's what we're working our way through, Neil.

NEIL MITCHELL: Okay. I have seen reports of the potential of what amounts to nuclear — to radiation fallout being dispersed around the world on the wind, if the worst happens. Is that a danger?

KEVIN RUDD: Well there's a whole lot of scenarios which various scientific experts can paint. What we can only do, Neil, is respond, as non-experts ourselves, as politicians, to the expert advice given to us by the Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety Agency. That's what we pay them for and that's why they're engaged by the hour with the International Atomic Energy Agency experts in Japan.

I think it's very important to listen carefully to the technical advice which is coming through from them.

NEIL MITCHELL: I guess I'm getting at — it's obviously a problem within that area of Japan. Is it a problem, potentially for Australia?

KEVIN RUDD: What we're most concerned about, Neil, is any Australians within that 20km radius which is why we have reinforced our own travel advisory, that Australians there should exit that exclusion zone.

More broadly, if there's any change in the situation beyond that 20km exclusion zone, within Japan or more broadly, then let me tell you, you'd be the first to know in terms of our advice to the Australian public.

NEIL MITCHELL: What is the — what is the official view on how long this — this problem continues?

KEVIN RUDD: You mean with the nuclear facilities?

NEIL MITCHELL: Yes, yes.

KEVIN RUDD: There is no advice in terms of the — let's call it the stabilisation period, either for what's called the Fukushima reactor, which has a total of six units within it, or for other reactors, let's call it, within the wider earthquake/tsunami affected zones.

There is another reactor to the north of Sendai which, as you know, is the centre of the earthquake and tsunami activity and there's a further reactor to the south of the one at Fukushima as well.

We are actively monitoring all of these facilities.

NEIL MITCHELL: Okay. So we don't really know how long the emergency continues?

KEVIN RUDD: No, I wouldn't want to mislead your listeners. I just don't think that's wise. As I said, as soon as we have any further technical information at hand, which is relevant to the safety advisories we put to the Australian public, let me tell you, we'll be putting that out straight away.

NEIL MITCHELL: Doesn't do much to help the cause of nuclear power in this country, does it, when you have something like this?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, that's probably a debate for another day. I think you know the longstanding position of the Australian Government on these matters but I think all of our focus now is on how do we deal with this real problem on the ground in Japan which the entire international community is focused on.

It's one of the reasons I raised these matters with the Japanese Foreign Minister a couple of nights ago, to make sure that we, and the rest of the international community, through the IAEA were getting the full flow of data necessary.

NEIL MITCHELL: And that is now happening, is it?

KEVIN RUDD: Based on our advice from the Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety Agency, yes.  Also I note there's been a briefing overnight by the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna which, based on the summary I've obtained from our embassy in Vienna, indicates that their liaison with Japan is effective.

So we will, as I said, continue to monitor these developments at a technical level through the technical experts and then provide any further information to the Australian public as it comes to hand which is relevant to the question of public safety.

NEIL MITCHELL: How many Australians are still unaccounted for?

KEVIN RUDD: Let me just go to that. We've — as of five o'clock this morning, Neil — we'd received 7600-plus telephone calls into the consular crisis centre here in my department in Canberra. So far we've confirmed the safety of 2610 of those.

People shouldn't be alarmed by the size of the gap. You will know from your own previous experience, Neil, it always takes a long time to finally track down every single person and it's normal for there to be a gap like that in the early stages of a disaster, until we are able to locate people, given the problems with phones and everything else.

In the disaster-affected areas we've currently got registered in those areas some 306 Australians and we've so far been able to confirm the safety of 128.

We're also moving our own consular teams into the disaster-affected areas. It's been virtually impossible in recent days to get there but our consular teams are now in Sendai which, as you know, is the major centre.

We've also had a team travel north to a city called Ishinomaki which is north of Sendai.   I'll spell that in case your listeners have any friends or family there: Ishinomaki.  There we've had success in confirming the safety of a further eight Australians. We've also had a team active in Iwate Prefecture. Again I spell it: Iwate. We've been able to confirm the safety of four Australians participating there in a Japanese exchange and teaching program.

NEIL MITCHELL: So we don't actually have any Australians confirmed as dead yet?

KEVIN RUDD: That's correct, Neil, based on the information to hand, but we are always concerned until we've actually traced down every last person. Understand, this is also a very painstaking and methodical process, of finding the person and then ensuring that we've cross-referenced it with the registration details we've obtained from family and friends in Australia and that's what we're doing.

Also our teams are going from hospital to hospital, from emergency shelter to emergency shelter, on the front foot, given that a lot of the prefectural administration is — has ground to a halt because of the impact of the disaster.

NEIL MITCHELL: Is it too early to assess the economic fallout here? I mean, the markets were bumpy overnight. Japan is a major trading partner for this country. Do we know what's going to — the impact's going to be?

KEVIN RUDD: Japan is our number two trading partner, Neil, and — and as you know, globally, it's the number three global economy after the United States and China and therefore what happens in Japan affects us all.

It is too early to make robust assessments of what happens in terms of global economy but obviously we've got our analysts at work on that as well. As you'd appreciate our immediate concern is doing whatever we can to help the Japanese government dealing with the crisis. That's why we've got a search and rescue team up there and that's why we've got C-17 aircraft now at the disposal of the Japanese authorities, to transport their own troops, personnel and equipment around Japan. It's a very big aircraft and it's very capable.

And that's why we've made other offers of assistance as well but we'll work our way through the economic implications in due course.

NEIL MITCHELL: Mr Rudd, just on something else, the Wikileaks founder, Julian Assange, last night told the Prime Minister he had information Australia had been exchanging information with foreign powers about Wikileaks staff. Now, as Foreign Minister, you'd know if it was happening, I imagine. Is it?

KEVIN RUDD: Our general principle is not to comment on intelligence information, as you know, Neil, and I've been completely preoccupied with Japan and recent developments in Libya and the Middle East overnight.

On this particular one though, I checked just before coming on air this morning and I personally am unaware of any such exchange.

Secondly, I checked with the Secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs, he's unaware of any such exchange. I also had my office check with the Office of the Attorney-General. He's unaware of any such exchange. That's my best response to this particular — question which was put last night.

NEIL MITCHELL: And are you continuing to offer help to Julian Assange if wanted?

KEVIN RUDD: Absolutely. We treat Mr Assange like any other Australians who has a consular difficulty abroad and it makes — and that goes to ensuring that there are regular consular visits if the person is incarcerated, making sure they've got adequate legal representation and responding practically to any other forms of assistance which are requested and that's our posture in relation to Mr Assange and any other of the one million Australians we have round the world at any given time, travelling or living abroad,  who run into problems with the local legal authorities.

NEIL MITCHELL: Still on something else, the polls on the carbon tax are pretty bad. Do you think this could cost you government?

KEVIN RUDD: I have been out of the country for the last couple of weeks so I haven't really focused on the detail of the carbon debate here in Australia.

I think the key thing to do on climate change, Neil, and I speak completely consistently with other Ministers of the Government who have direct responsibility for this, is to ensure that we have a price on carbon because the problem of climate change doesn't go away and sometimes these decisions are very difficult in terms of them not being particularly popular but I think in the full spectrum of history it's important that we proceed in this direction and put a price on carbon.

NEIL MITCHELL: Given you've been away, maybe you haven't caught up with the fact your popularity's going up, the Prime Minister's is going down.

KEVIN RUDD: How long have you been interviewing me, Neil?

NEIL MITCHELL: [Laughs]

KEVIN RUDD: One, two, three, four, five, six years. How many polls have we seen in that period of time, mate? [Laughs]

They go up, they go down, they go up, they go down and they come and they go. It’s been a great honour to have served as Australian Prime Minister, it's a great honour to serve as Foreign Minister, and as far as being Foreign Minister's concerned, Neil, let me tell you, as our interview demonstrates today, there're a few things going on around the world which tend to take your time.

NEIL MITCHELL: True, but the question's being asked, do you support Julia Gillard's leadership?

KEVIN RUDD: Absolutely.

NEIL MITCHELL: Would you like another tilt at Prime Minister?

KEVIN RUDD: You know something, Neil, I'm not of the view that lightning strikes twice. I think, as far as my own job is concerned, the work as Foreign Minister is right up my alley, I'm doing it to the best of my ability, there's a lot going on around the world and I am absolutely satisfied with the work that I'm currently doing. I believe it's in support of the nation's interest, given that what happens around the world affects, as we see today, what happens in main street Australia, so that's - that's the job I've got and that's what I intend to keep doing.

NEIL MITCHELL: So lightning doesn't strike twice? You wouldn't go back?

KEVIN RUDD: [Laughs] Well, I haven't studied the history of lightning too much, mate, but I think it's a pretty rare occurrence. There you go.

NEIL MITCHELL: Is it as rare as Julia Gillard playing full forward for the sixth grade football club?

KEVIN RUDD: So what would you like me to do? It's more likely for me to be captain of the Broncos? I'm from a rugby league-playing state, mate, so these analogies mean nothing to us.

NEIL MITCHELL: So we can go with that. It's more likely you'd be captain of the Broncos than return as Prime Minister.

KEVIN RUDD: Well, we could use any analogy you like, mate, I don't foresee any such circumstances in the future.

NEIL MITCHELL: Thank you very much for your time.

KEVIN RUDD: Thanks very much, Neil.

NEIL MITCHELL: The Foreign Minister, Kevin Rudd.

END

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