Interview with Jon Faine, ABC 774 Melbourne

Transcript, E&OE, proof only

Subjects: Japan earthquake, Libya

14 March 2011

JON FAINE: The situation with the disaster in Japan continues to preoccupy us this morning as we deal with the consequences of not just an earthquake, not just a terrifying tsunami, but thousands dead, tens of thousands missing, hundreds of thousands homeless, and millions without power, water or food and communications; ports, roads and railways destroyed, factories closed, an economy that will take years to recover.

Kevin Rudd is Australia's Foreign Minister. He's speaking to us from the national capital.

Mr Rudd, good morning to you.

KEVIN RUDD: Good morning, Jon. Thanks for having me on your program.

JON FAINE: First of all, to deal with the aid effort. What are we doing and what more needs to be done?

KEVIN RUDD: The first thing that we have is the arrival in Tokyo this morning at an American military airfield the 78-person Australian Urban Search and Rescue Team. They are being deployed to a centre called Minami-Sanriku, which is in Miyagi prefecture. It's about 200 kilometres north-east of Tokyo. It's one of the hardest hit prefectures. Our team will be working alongside the Kyoto City fire fighters. Also we're deploying with them, Japanese language speakers so that they can work with their Japanese counterparts as easily as possible. Also we've dispatched an embassy consular team to Sendai. This has been difficult to get into in the last 48 hours. They are now there and they have now been in direct contact with local authorities and hospitals in the Sendai region to assess the situation, but to date they've not found any foreign patients in the three hospitals that have been contacted so far. And conditions permitting, the team today will proceed further north to some of the hardest hit areas.

JON FAINE: Are you concerned about the prospect of some nuclear fallout from the now four power stations experiencing difficulties?

KEVIN RUDD: That's obviously why we maintained contact through the Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety Agency, ARPANSA, and the International Atomic Energy Agency and the authorities of the Japanese government to make sure that we have as up to date technical information as possible, given the implications for public safety, including, of course, the 11,000-plus Australians who live in Japan as well.

From the Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety Agency, we've been given the following information this morning, they advise that Unit 1 of the Fukushima nuclear power plant has now - it now appears to be stable and the containment is intact. This has been confirmed, I'm advised, by the IAEA and by the Japanese government.

Having said that, there are also problems with the emergency cooling systems at Unit 3. Technicians have been deployed to use seawater to cool the reactor and boric acid to cause the reactor to remain subcritical. This is the same procedure they used with Unit 1.

Furthermore, this morning I received information, again from ARPANSA, concerning advice from the International Atomic Energy Agency that the lowest level state of emergency has been declared by the Japanese authorities at the Onagawa nuclear power plant. The IAEA is relying upon information provided by the Japanese government that the three reactor units of the power plant are under control, but they are, as I said, monitoring that situation closely and have in place a low-level state of emergency declaration.

JON FAINE: And for the Tokai station closer to Tokyo, which our reporters now are saying is also on alert.

KEVIN RUDD: Yes, we're waiting for further confirmation from the Japanese - from the Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety Agency on that.

JON FAINE: And not to mince words, Kevin Rudd, do you trust the Japanese to keep the world and their own citizens fully informed when in the past they've been criticised for not doing so?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, we believe the right approach with our friends in Japan are to keep all the lines of communication open, and the information that our Japanese friends are operating under great pressure, what they are providing is of course then sent to the IAEA for technical examination and also through to the Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety Agency for their technical examination.

And what I can do with you, Jon, with your listeners, is convey the information that's contained, that's provided to me by those agencies, because that is the source of professional advice to the Australian government.

JON FAINE: But do you have lingering doubts about the reliability of that information?

KEVIN RUDD: We've got no basis for that. The key thing is...

JON FAINE: Well, history is one.

KEVIN RUDD: We've got no basis for that. The key thing is to ensure that all information that is provided by the Japanese is in fact then provided for further analysis by the IAEA and by the Australian agency, ARPANSA. That's what we - that's the process we have in place and that's the basis upon which I provided that information to your listeners just before.

JON FAINE: Should the Japanese allow independent and overseas authorities to come and verify the state of the situation in their nuclear plants?

KEVIN RUDD: On the question of the technical provision of information, the key thing is to have Japanese data being provided to the international experts and Australian experts and their counterparts around the world for further analysis. That is the process which exists at present.

JON FAINE: But it's surely not...

KEVIN RUDD: What I said the other day was that, in my conversation with the Japanese Foreign Minister I think the night before last, one of the things I discussed with him was a further offer of assistance from the Australian agency, ARPANSA, for technical experts to go there. He indicated that should that offer, among other offers that we've made for support for Japan at this stage be taken up, then he'd come back to us through the usual embassy liaison channels. We haven't received that request as of yet...

JON FAINE: And you never will, Kevin Rudd. This is an industry that is notorious for not wanting other people to know what's going on. Can we trust them to tell us what really is happening? We couldn't with Three Mile Island and we couldn't with Chernobyl either.

KEVIN RUDD: Well, the reason why we have been absolutely insisting on the advice in our own nuclear agencies to ensure that they, together with the IAEA, are working through with our Japanese colleagues the data which is being provided.

We've got to respect the sovereignty of Japan on these questions. But it is one of the reasons why in my conversation about a range of topics with the Japanese Foreign Minister the night before last, I requested that Australia, together with the IAEA, continue to be kept informed of all relevant technical information because of the public safety implications which arise obviously for the Japanese public but for the wider public in Japan as well, which includes some 11,000-plus Australians.

JON FAINE: All right. We'll come to the rebuild in a moment, but Kevin Rudd, does this in any way affect your thinking, your personal thinking about nuclear power in Australia as an option, which has very much been back on the agenda in recent times?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, it's probably a debate for a different day, Jon. But my position has never changed in support of the - in support of the Australian Government's longstanding position and that reflected in the platform of the Australian Labor Party. And the reason in Australia's case is that because we have such a rich array of other energy options, including other clean energy options, so that it is not a material requirement here in Australia.

JON FAINE: Well, I think it's certainly going to influence things. We'll be talking about that a bit too.

Already the financial pages of the newspapers are full of predictions that this will increase demand for Australian raw materials, and a lot of the infrastructure rebuild required for ports, railways, roads, buildings and the like in Japan will be an economic plus for Australia. Is that also your assessment?

KEVIN RUDD: Look, I don't think it's right or proper to go into those sorts of analyses at this stage. All the assets of the Australian Government are currently deployed in two respects. One is the identification of Australians. Remember, we've got nearly 7000 calls into the Consular Crisis Centre in Canberra as of eight o'clock this morning. We've confirmed that nearly 2000 of those are safe. We're working through the rest. We've confirmed that 102 are safe from the disaster-affected areas, but we have 234 registered Australians in that area. That's number one priority.

Number two, of course, is to ensure that our offers of material assistance for the Japanese are being properly deployed, and that's why we've got this team on the ground and other offers to Japan remain current. And thirdly, we continue to monitor through the professional agencies all the data on Japan's nuclear reactors for the reasons we've talked about before.

As for rebuilds, et cetera, that's a discussion for another day.

JON FAINE: And even though I'm sure you're fully preoccupied with the situation in Japan. I'll bet it's not escaped your attention that the Fairfax newspapers today have opinion polls suggesting that you're now more popular as Australian possible prime minister than Julia Gillard, Kevin Rudd.

KEVIN RUDD: Well, this - I've already been interviewed on this this morning, Jon. My response to it is as it's always been in times past - polls come, polls go, they go up, they go down. It's been a great honour to work as Prime Minister of Australia; it's a great honour to work now as Foreign Minister of Australia. And as our conversation illustrates this morning, there's plenty preoccupying my mind at the moment in terms of the job at hand, and the job at hand is a huge one.

JON FAINE: Well, Libya is still - is there a point of difference between you and Julia Gillard today on whether or not we should or shouldn't be imposing a no-fly zone over Libya?

KEVIN RUDD: Absolutely not, nor has there ever been. The position of the Government has been clear from the last two weeks or so since we first put out this policy position I think 25, 26 February or thereabouts. And the reason for it has been clear, and that is, Gaddafi has shown no compunction whatsoever in using his air force to strafe and bomb civilian centres. And that's why we've been very active in our diplomacy on this, on this question.

One positive development has been that the Arab League on Saturday came out in support of a no-fly zone for Libya. But the UN Security Council has not yet deliberated on it and I understand there is still resistance within the council.

JON FAINE: Where from?

KEVIN RUDD: I do not - I don't have that information at hand in terms of which states. I just understand that there is still some resistance within the council.

JON FAINE: It's hard to see how any reasonable and fair-minded citizen of the world can resist protecting democracy activists against a tyrant, a dictator and a despot. So who is holding this up?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, the quickest answer to your question is no, I don't know. And on the first part of your point, I completely agree, which is why it's been Australian Government policy for the last couple of weeks. We have been very forward leaning on all of this. We've been forward leaning on the need to refer the regime to the International Criminal Court. We've been forward leaning on the imposition of financial sanctions, forward leaning on the imposition of travel sanctions, forward leaning on the imposition of an arms embargo, and forward leaning on the question of a no-fly zone.

This is a very horrendous situation for Libyan civilians, and when you see the military process unfolding on the ground in Libya, then it underlines those concerns. And I become increasingly concerned, Jon, that this is taking far too long through the international diplomatic processes of the world when innocent civilians are dying in a war-torn country.

JON FAINE: I have text messages galore, but one in particular, Kevin Rudd. We've just heard from PM2, when do we hear from PM1? But then you tell us you're singing from the same song sheet. We'll take your word for it.

Thank you for your time this morning.

KEVIN RUDD: Well, just to respond to that, Jon. The position of the Government on this one, that is the no-fly zone in Libya, has been consistent throughout. Anyone doubts it, the Prime Minister reaffirmed this position in Parliament in early March. I think there's been a lot of unnecessary sort of media speculation about any perceived differences. There are none.

JON FAINE: I'm grateful to you for your time, and thank you.

KEVIN RUDD: Thanks, Jon.

JON FAINE: The Foreign Minister, Kevin Rudd.

END

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