Transcript of interview with Sameer Omar, Al Jazeera Arabic

Subjects: WikiLeaks, Middle East peace process, China, Egyptian-Australian relations.

Cairo

Transcript, E&OE, proof only

11 December 2010

QUESTION: Excellency, welcome to Al Jazeera channel.

FOREIGN MINISTER KEVIN RUDD: Well thank you for having me on the program, Sameer. It's good to have an opportunity to speak to our friends through Al Jazeera

QUESTION: Thank you. You would be aware of protests in Australia in association with Julian Assange. What is the position of the Australian Government in relation to the protests, in the first, and Julian Assange?

RUDD: Well the first thing is, Australia is a free country and people can protest about any matter at any place and at any time. Secondly, in the case of Mr Assange, our position has been quite clear. And that is, that any Australian should be entitled to a presumption of innocence, should be also entitled to due legal process. In the case of Mr Assange in London, we have been in contact with him, we have ensured he has been provided with all levels of consular support that he wishes, consular access, consular visits, to confirm his wellbeing, his welfare, but on top of that, that he has proper legal representation. That is how we are handling this matter.

QUESTION: Do you support him?

RUDD: Well we support the legal rights of any Australian who finds himself in legal difficulty anywhere in the world, and Mr Assange is therefore treated no differently.

QUESTION: Actually, I'm talking about WikiLeaks. Do you support him on this issue?

RUDD: Well there are two sets of matters. One of course is the matters on which he is being investigated in London at the moment and an application for extradition by the Swedish authorities on criminal matters in Sweden.

More broadly on the question of WikiLeaks, our attitude is pretty basic. The first is — the Australian Government does not support the unauthorised release of classified government information because the business of diplomacy in the Middle East and the Arab world, across the world, is a confidential business.

But secondly, on the case of Mr Assange, our view is very clear — that is, that his actions have to be properly, independently examined by the qualified legal and police authorities, to see whether there is any basis for legal action against him.

And that, in Australia, is the process under way, through the Australian Federal Police, through the Department of Public Prosecutions, all at political arms' length from the Australian Government. We are a nation of laws and these matters are being handled independently by the legal machinery of the Australian state.

QUESTION: You have said before that the United States is responsible for leaks, not Assange himself. Do you think this issue maybe will affect the relations between Australia and the United States?

RUDD: Well our position is very clear-cut. The first is we don't support the release or the unauthorised release by anybody of confidential government diplomatic communications. And the reason for that is a point of principle, that is, the business of diplomacy is supposed to be confidential. I don't think anyone seriously argues that a nation state be it in the Middle East or elsewhere should argue everything in the public domain. There is a proper place for private diplomatic communications. That's our view. The second point I'd make though is the US carries responsibility for the proper protection of its own diplomatic communications. That's clear-cut. In addition to that, there is a separate question to be tested by the legal authorities, as to whether any other person including Mr Assange is subject to proper charging under any system of national laws in Australia, in the US, or anywhere else. But that should be conducted in dependently, professionally and by the competent legal authorities. That is our view.

QUESTION: The leaks mentioned that you had advised the United States — and you're an expert in Chinese affairs — to prepare for possible confrontation with China. How true are these leaks, and are you not concerned that this would create tensions between Australia and China?

RUDD: Sameer, our policy in relation to these so called WikiLeaks is that we don't comment as a Government on either the content or the accuracy of any of these cables. Remember there are supposed to be a quarter of a million of them out there and probably thousands dealing with Australia. So we don't do that.

On the question of general relationship with China though, let me make some very fundamental principles clear. We've had a very good relationship with China now for nearly 40 years. China is our largest trading partner. It is a significant and important economic relationship for both of us. We are China's largest suppliers of iron ore. We are one of its largest suppliers of natural gas. We are a large supplier of Chinese coal needs. This is a very deep and fundamental economic relationship.

On the political side, we also have high-level visits in both directions. And our belief in Australia is that we together with the Chinese will work very well together, and have worked very well together, in the principal institutions of the world. We are both members of the G20. We are both strong, active members of the United Nations. We work closely in the IMF. We work closely in the World Bank.

Obviously, because it's a different political system to Australia's- Australia is a Western liberal democracy; China is not — there are differences of political interests. And so on these sorts of questions there will be, from time to time, a different point of view. The challenge of diplomacy is to manage differences. But as I've said before, the Australia-China relationship is like a glass which is 85% full. That's where we agree. This is where we've still got some work to do. I think that's normal in relations between any states.

QUESTION: That's a good answer. Okay, let's leave WikiLeaks and move on to the Middle East conflict. You met President Mubarak and you will meet Aboul-Gheit and Moussa before. In your opinion, what is your vision for a solution to solve the Palestinian and Israeli conflict?

RUDD: Well, Australia's long-standing position is that the only credible solution long-term is for a viable, secure, independent Israeli state and viable, secure, independent Palestinian state, living side-by-side, with diplomatic recognition around both. That is the objective. The difficulty — as you have pointed out, Sameer — is how do we get there. There's been a roadmap to peace for almost as long as I can remember. But we haven't got to the end of the road yet. And I'm quite concerned that we have not reached any real progress. I believe it is important that all parties contribute the maximum to the diplomacy necessary to get a real outcome.

We are familiar with the outstanding issues — they've been around for a long time. And so in Egypt here, in my discussions with President Mubarak and with the Foreign Minister, and with the Secretary General of the Arab League, and in Jordan, where I'll go to next to see His Majesty The King and the Foreign Minister there, before going to Israel to see the government leadership there, and then to Ramallah to see Abu Mazen and the rest of the Palestinian Authority's government, I am listening very carefully as to possible ways through. We in Australia are long-standing friends of Israel but we are long-standing friends of the Arab world.

We have nearly half a million Australians who are Arab Australians, we have probably a hundred thousand Jewish Australians; we have many more Muslim Australians from all parts of the world. So I believe we try to bring to bear an honest perspective on how we can bring about progress. But I share with you frankly — I am deeply disappointed with the state of progress right now.

QUESTION: Which means you agree with the two-state solution.

RUDD: Yes that's correct.

QUESTION: Will you support the Palestinian state if Abu Mazen said that?

RUDD: In fact, when I addressed the United Nations General Assembly only a couple of months ago, speaking on behalf of the government of Australia, I said to the international community: let us all resolve in this place that when we next meet, there should be an independent Palestinian state and an independent Israeli state in the United Nations General Assembly.

And let us all work towards that objective. When I travel to Ramallah in the next few days, I look forward to my discussions with Mahmoud Abbas and other leaders in the PA for their views on how to go forward.

Secondly, we are strong financial supporters of the PA. Since our government has been elected, we are providing already US$150 million in direct support for the budget and for the social services of the Palestinian Authority. And when I'm in Ramallah, we will be increasing that further. So this will be a process of consultation and dialogue with Ramallah, with Tel Aviv, with Cairo, with our friends elsewhere in the Arab world including Amman. This will be a difficult process, but we will be strong supporters of getting to that end point of an independent Palestinian state. The people of Palestine deserve their own state. These people have had a hard time over a long time. They have their legitimate security interests, as do the Israelis and I believe we can get to an outcome if we have political will, determination and commitment.

QUESTION: In your opinion, who is responsible for the continuation of the conflict and failure of direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians?

RUDD: I think there are many factors which have been a problem. One of those factors has been the continuation of new Israeli settlements — we in Australia do not support that. We have never supported that, because it is not helpful to the peace process.

At the same time, Israel also faces threats from various terrorist organisations as well. We've seen that before, it continues to be a problem for the Israelis. There are multiple factors impacting on this. Somehow we need to find a way through the middle of all this, to find a settlement.

When I look at the little children of Palestine, they deserve a safe and secure future. They deserve good schools. They deserve the best hospitals. They deserve a future they can be optimistic about. And in our own modest way, we in Australia want to support that future for our Palestinian friends.

QUESTION: That's great. But do you think it's equal between Israel and the Palestinian people?

RUDD: As a diplomat, I will refrain from answering those sorts of questions. Everyone has a responsibility to try and bring this ancient dispute to a modern resolution. And I believe all people of goodwill- whether they are Christian, whether they are Muslim, whether they are Jewish — there are good people all around who want to see this solution. My sense of the region is that people want to live in peace. Our children deserve a good future in this part of the world. Palestinian Australians tell me that all the time. Arab Australians tell me that all the time. Jewish Australians tell me that all the time. But to make it work, everyone is going to have to provide leadership, both from Tel Aviv, from Ramallah, from the Arab states, from the Islamic world and from the United States as well.

QUESTION: You are in Cairo to celebrate the 60th anniversary of Egyptian-Australian relations, right? How do you see the future of Egyptian-Australian relations and Arab-Australian relations?

RUDD: Well, very positively. I had a very good discussion in the last day or so with Secretary General Moussa of the Arab League and of course today with the President of Egypt, President Mubarak. These have been good discussions talking about the future. This has been a relationship which has been good for 60 years, so many Egyptians in Australia who have contributed to our national life.

But here are the areas for the future — build our economic relationship — particularly in mining; we are one of the biggest mining countries in the world. Egypt is unlocking various of its own mineral resources, we stand ready to help and to assist in a way which benefits both countries. Dry land farming and agriculture — in Australia we are experts at this. Why? We've had no alternative. We have a dry continent. One of the driest continents on earth. And thirdly, critically, in education. We are running what is called the Australia Awards.

We currently have something like 20,000 Arab students in Australia every year studying at all our universities. And they are very welcome. They are very good students. And they're always well-behaved, unlike their Australian counterparts.

But we want to see more educational exchanges and the use of more scholarships in areas which help people in Egypt and people more broadly in the Arab world — dry land farming, other areas of technology, other areas of science, other areas of medicine, other areas of education. So I'm optimistic about the future. And you'll see me I believe in Cairo and the region much more frequently in the future.

QUESTION: Your Excellency, thank you very much.

END

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