Interview with Steve Vizard, Mornings, Melbourne Talk Radio

Subjects: WikiLeaks and Julian Assange

Transcript, E&OE

8 December 2010

STEVE VIZARD: We've been talking WikiLeaks pretty much all day. All of the papers around Australia are headed - well, The Age in Australia, scathing attacks upon Rudd. What does that do to the Foreign Minister's capacity to continue to represent Australia internationally?

Kevin Rudd, the Foreign Affairs Minister is on the line.

Thanks for your time Kevin.

KEVIN RUDD: G'day Steve, how are you?

STEVE VIZARD: Really appreciate you making yourself available.

Scathing attacks on Rudd leads The Age. How do you recover, in your roll, from a headline like that?

KEVIN RUDD: [Laughs] Like 120 other foreign ministers and heads of government around the world. The bottom line is we're not Robinson Crusoe here. There's a quarter of a million diplomatic cables out there at the moment. And around the world you've got foreign ministers and heads of government being accused of high level corruption, urging the United States to go to war against Iran. You've got, you know, the President of Russia - the Prime Minister of Russia being accused of being in the employ of the Mafia.

I mean let's put all this into some context. The bottom line is diplomats write this sort of stuff all the time. For me it's really water off a duck's back. You know, just get on with the job and that means turning up for Australia's national interests and prosecuting Australia's foreign policy.

STEVE VIZARD: Is there anything of substance that's been reported in the - in those cables, in those communiques, that you regret saying?

KEVIN RUDD: Steve, we have a robust policy of not commenting on the content of any of these claims contained in these diplomatic communications which have been the subject of unauthorised release. We have said this for weeks and weeks and that will be our policy into the future.

If I could just say more generally, however, look if people are writing colourful stuff, diplomatic - in diplomatic communications about yours truly, that's fine. One of the things I'd rather never be written about me was this guy was a soft touch, that this guy was always going to do what a foreign government wanted. Much rather that people have been critical because I would stand up for Australia's interests and act in the national interest, and that's what I think I've been doing.

STEVE VIZARD: The nature of life is that you modify your behaviour when you learn certain pieces of information. How would you modify your behaviour in carrying out your role, with this further information that you're now exposed to?

KEVIN RUDD: Steve, I continue to work as Foreign Minister of Australia and nothing whatsoever will change into the future.

Diplomacy is a robust business. It's not there, as I said the other day, to - for the purpose of rolling over and having your tummy tickled be it by the Chinese or the Americans, or any other foreign government. The worst thing that - I mean what do we expect to have diplomatic cables write about the Foreign Minister or the Prime Minister of Australia? You know, he's a wonderful chap. He dresses well, he always laughs at our jokes and he always does what we ask him to do. I mean, for goodness sake, it's a robust business and if I was to start to respond to a whole bunch of stuff that's been said negatively about me - for example, in the Australian media over the last three to six months, in the last three or four years, mate, you'd be responding to every entry in the Melbourne telephone directory.

STEVE VIZARD: Kevin, very briefly, Julian Assange is - well, he calls himself a scapegoat.

The Prime Minister came out not so long ago and said that the foundation of what had happened was based on illegality and went so far - although, I think she's resiled from this position - is to say that posting it was illegal. How is that, in any way, largely different from what Andrew Wilkie did, and he now presides over security at the highest level in Australia?

KEVIN RUDD: Well let's be very clear about Andrew Wilkie, who I have compl... you know, the utmost respect for, the case of Andrew Wilkie - classified information, which he was the author of, was leaked against him by individuals within the then Howard Government. Let's be very clear about Mr Wilkie. And I think it's quite wrong to draw parallels with him. I have complete respect for him and I defended him at the time that this was all going on as Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs.

The second point is this, and you ask about Mr Assange, the bottom line here is that the core of all this lies with the failure of the government of the United States to properly protect its own diplomatic communications. To have several million people on their distribution list, for a quarter of million cables - some of them, you know, pretty sensitive; much more sensitive than the ones we've been talking about this morning - that's where the problem lies and the person or persons responsible for their unauthorised release, who then gets engaged in the business of disseminating the content of that information, be it WikiLeaks, or anybody else, well that's a matter to be tested by the police and by the DPP, by the lawyers. That's a separate matter entirely.

And this Mr Assange should be entitled to the presumption of innocence and that goes for the matters which he's appeared in a London court on in the last 24 hours. And our job as an Australian Government is to provide support for him, of a consular nature, as we have been since he first contacted the Australian Mission yesterday.

STEVE VIZARD: Kevin, one final question. Will these leaks, which were unauthorised and were illegal at the outset, change the nature of the way governments talk to each other and do business for fear of similar leaks?

KEVIN RUDD: That's a very good question you know Steve. I think - look I was asked this question in the Middle East the other day where you had dozens of foreign ministers being asked the same question and these are from countries where, can I say, the claims came - contained American diplomatic cables were somewhat more aggressive than those which we're talking about today. I think people are having a legitimate debate about this around the world, about how they do the business of diplomacy. My attitude, and I said this publicly at a conference in Bahrain only a few days ago, is you've just got to get on with the business. And what the Australian people expect of us is to continue to do the job of diplomacy in dealing with the big challenges which face us. What are they today? Are we still going to have peace on the Korean peninsula? How do we work with North Korea and South Korea to prevent conflict, or prevent war? I think all your listeners would be pretty much of a view that's where the bulk of our attention should be, not sort of the - not sort of the scuttlebutt of diplomatic musings about, you know, one person or another.

STEVE VIZARD: Kevin Rudd, appreciate your time. Difficult times for all people engaged in international affairs as these WikiLeaks keep coming out. I appreciate your time.

Kevin Rudd, Minister for Foreign Affairs.

END

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