Transcript of interview with Lateline, ABC TV

Subjects: Korean Peninsula

Transcript, E&OE, Proof Only

23 November 2010

LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: And a short time ago the South Koreans admitted that they were involved in a military drill, including test firing, before North Korea fired its shells.

But it says it was firing west and not towards North Korea.

Joining me from Canberra is the Foreign Minister, Kevin Rudd.

Mr Rudd, North Korea is saying that it was responding to the South Korean actions. What do you think is behind North Korea's behaviour here?

KEVIN RUDD, FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, North Korea has a history – not just over the last 50 years or so but in the last several months – of being exceptionally provocative towards the South. Let's just line them up.

Number one, the sinking of the Cheonan, which was just referred to in your report. That led to the death of some 46 Republic of Korea sailors. This is a submarine attack of the type which you would think was normal in World War II, but not in the 21st century. The second of course has been the reports within the last week of the North Korean uranium enrichment program. This is of significant relevance in terms of North Korea's nuclear weapons program.

And now today this extraordinary development in terms of the artillery barrage by the North Koreans, which has resulted in the death of two ROK soldiers and the displacement of civilians.

This is a pattern of reckless behaviour.

LEIGH SALES: When you look at those factors over recent months that you outlined, have analysts thought that a reaction on this scale was imminent, though?

KEVIN RUDD: I think all analysts have consistently failed to anticipate the erratic nature of North Korean behaviour.

And there is a great degree of opacity about internal North Korean politics. I mean I've been to Pyongyang a couple of times myself over the years. This place is not called a hermit kingdom for nothing.

There are real problems with understanding the dynamics of the regime which cause this behaviour.

I notice your report said it was linked with leadership transition politics. That could be the case. But what we are concerned about as a government, and as a friend and long standing supporter of the ROK – the Republic of Korea – is what these provocative acts do in terms of immediate stability on the Peninsula.

LEIGH SALES: Well, talk around that for us. Is there the potential for this to escalate to a broader regional conflict?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, I was in Seoul not long ago and spent an hour or so talking to the president, Lee Myung-Bak, about these sorts of questions. And the president and the government of the Republic of Korea are legitimately scratching their heads about why the North would do what they did just a short time ago with the sinking of the Cheonan.

Now, put yourself in the position of the South Korean president, Lee Myung-Bak, and the enormous weight of domestic public opinion within a democracy the Republic of Korea. And then you've got this fresh attack by the North Koreans to add on to his, if you like, domestic political burden and responsibilities.

Lee Myung-Bak is a very experienced statesman. I believe he'll exercise restraint but the North Koreans are really pushing the South to the limit.

LEIGH SALES: Have you had any discussions with your regional counterparts since this started?

KEVIN RUDD: Yes, I had a long discussion this afternoon with the Japanese foreign minister, Seiji Maehara, who, as you know, was in Canberra today. He came from Tokyo down to Canberra and is back to Tokyo again this evening. We've had a good day's discussions about regional developments and then late in the day this unfolded.

So, yes, we and the Japanese are closely collaborating in terms of our response to this provocation by the North Koreans. And we, together with themselves and the Americans, will be looking towards two courses of action: what is possible in the UN Security Council; and, secondly, what is also possible in terms of our respective dialogues with Beijing, given China's particular relationship with North Korea.

LEIGH SALES: You mentioned the Americans. Have there been any discussions with the State Department yet?

KEVIN RUDD: At an officials level, yes. And we are closely coordinating our responses but this is going to require a calm hand, a cool hand. I believe the Korean president, Lee Myung-Bak, the President of the South, will handle this appropriately. He's a very experienced man.

But we as friends and partners of the South back to the days of the Korean War, 1950-53, are also watching this intently. It is a further reminder of how fragile stability in fact is in the wider East Asian region where we have so many unresolved territorial disputes.

LEIGH SALES: Given North Korea's long range missile capability and its reputation for erratic behaviour, does it pose a threat to Australian national security?

KEVIN RUDD: I've long been of the view that the DPRK, North Korea, represents not just a threat to stability on the Korean Peninsula but more widely across East Asia, and that includes Australia.

You've made reference to their missile capabilities. There are mixed reports in terms of the effectiveness of range.

But let's put a number of these factors together. You have a number of test firings of North Korea's missile capability on the one hand. That's the delivery vehicle.

And now you have potentially two sources of fissile material – one being what we've known in the past to be North Korean access to plutonium at their Yongbyon reactor. And now the recent reports that in fact they have heavily enriched uranium as well.

Put the ingredients together, it's not just a global challenge to non-proliferation, it's in fact an immediate challenge to stability within our region as well. That's why we are deeply seized of these matters.

LEIGH SALES: How important is China's reaction to this?

KEVIN RUDD: I believe it's very important. In Beijing recently I was talking to various Chinese leaders about the sinking of the Cheonan and the absolute importance which the rest of our region places on China pressuring the DPRK, North Korea, to adopt a more sensible course of action in the future.

Now with this most recent development I believe that responsibility will again confront China in terms of the posture it adopts towards Pyongyang.

I noticed the statement that you just broadcast a minute ago from the Chinese Foreign Ministry which said that they are seeking to confirm reports.

Well to be fair to the Chinese, it will take a little bit of time to put together all the bits and pieces here. But at the same time, China has a very close strategic relationship with the North – goes back to the events of the 1950s. And I think the international community will be looking towards China to apply more and more pressure to Pyongyang because the current course of action is one of consistent provocation and I am always concerned about conflict arising through miscalculation under these circumstances.

LEIGH SALES: Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd, thank you very much for making time to speak to us tonight.

KEVIN RUDD: Thanks for having me on your program.

END

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