Transcript of Interview with Sky News Agenda

Subjects: Panel discussion about the release of Aung San Suu Kyi from house arrest in Burma

Transcript, E&OE, proof only

14 November 2010

PETER VAN ONSELEN: Welcome back. You're watching Australian Agenda, where I'm joined in the studio by The Australian foreign editor, Greg Sheridan and editor at large, Paul Kelly.

And we're joined now out of Canberra by Foreign Minister, Kevin Rudd. Mr Rudd thanks very much for your company.

KEVIN RUDD: Happy to be on the program Peter.

PETER VAN ONSELEN: Can I just ask you, straight off the bat, what's your reaction to the release of Aung San Suu Kyi?

KEVIN RUDD: Absolute delight. I've followed this closely for many, many, many years. This is an extraordinary event. Aung San Suu Kyi is an icon of democracy, not just within Burma but across the world. But of course the delight, Peter, is tempered by a whole range of other feelings as well.

Those of us who have followed Burma closely in recent years know that what the regime gives with one hand, they often take with the other. I spoke with our ambassador in Rangoon last night and we still have no assurances of any description that Aung San Suu Kyi is going to have freedom of movement, freedom of expression, freedom of speech and whether her political activities are going to be unimpeded.

But your question is how do I feel when I saw her pop up over the fence last night. Absolutely delighted.

GREG SHERIDAN: Mr Rudd, can I ask you, the Obama administration came into office and changed Burma policy radically. They had a policy of engaging Burma. The last 10 or 15 years of western nations such as the United States and Australia isolating Burma has seen a collapse of anti-AIDS programs. It's seen a consolidation of Chinese strategic influence and it's seen no real move in internal Burmese politics.

Do you think this development today will encourage the Australian Government and other western governments to keep engaging Burma or is there a danger if Aung San Suu Kyi goes back into custody, as happened before, that we just get back into that very sterile isolation policy?

KEVIN RUDD: Well Greg, your question goes to the absolute core of the dilemmas faced by western governments around the world and democratic governments around the world about getting the balance right on Burma policy. On the one hand, nobody wishes to accord the regime any greater level of legitimacy than is absolutely necessarily. On the other hand, we're faced with the absolute plight of the Burmese people on the one hand - you've just mentioned some of the human development indicators - and on the other hand, the best efforts to restore Burma to democracy long term.

For Australia, what we've sought to do, literally in the last year or so, is to re-engage fundamentally on the development assistance front. We're now contributing some $50 million annually to Burma. That is up by about $20 million or so over the last year alone. And our big investments Greg are in maternal and child health, where mortality rates at present are the worst in Asia and in education and in agricultural development.

So we're in there, at ground level. At the same time we maintain a sanctions regime against individual members of the regime. It's getting this balance right for us, will be important in the future and also getting the balance right for other countries engaging with Burma as well.

PAUL KELLY: I'd like to draw you out if I could Mr Rudd on what do you think has motivated the regime to take this decision. What are the calculations you think that they're making and what do you think this means for progress over the next couple of years?

KEVIN RUDD: Well Paul I wish I knew the answer to your question and I think analysts of the regime continue to scratch their head about decisions by the regime taken one day, one week, one year and then what happens in the reverse direction.

Therefore my only conclusion can be that the coalition of international diplomatic support behind Aung San Suu Kyi has become so formidable and not just restricted to the shall I say traditional western group of countries, but including a much wider group of newly emerging democracies. The strong voice of Indonesia for example within our own region. The strong voice also of the Koreans and others. In other words it's not just the west telling Burma you've got it wrong, or the regime they've got it wrong, it's the global democratic family saying to the regime they've got it wrong as well.

I think that's been a factor but Greg - but Paul I should say, if I knew the answer to what worked in the regime's mind everyday I'd probably be a very rich man. And I'm sorry I don't have that information.

GREG SHERIDAN: Mr Rudd, Burma has been an embarrassment for ASEAN, the Association of South East Asian Nations. The - I guess my question is do you see a swing towards a democratic and human rights values within ASEAN? And also how concerned are you by the enormous Chinese strategic investment and consolidation of Chinese influence within Burma?

KEVIN RUDD: Let me take those in sequence Greg. On the first one, I think the transformation within ASEAN itself has been a phenomenon to observe in the last five years or so. And you've covered this closely in your writings in The Australian. For example the leading role now taken by Indonesia as a successful, secular democracy in an Islamic country in gaining its regional and global democratic voice. I think that's been a big factor. For example next month, I'll attend the Bali Democracy Forum, an initiative of President Yudhoyono's, which he got going some years ago, to extend the voice of democracy and extend the tent to the democratic family in Asia with an Asian country, that is Indonesia, taking the lead.

So therefore I see Indonesia as having been a very strong voice in this evolution of a greater democratic and human rights norm within ASEAN's let's call it internal and external posture.

Second part of your question went to China. Obviously the regime in Burma has a very close relationship with China. We saw the regime's leaders visit China within the last several months. I think this will be a continued challenge for the Chinese leadership because the more China supports regimes such as those we find in North Korea, those we find in Burma, those we find in the Sudan and elsewhere, the more that detracts from China's own global international standing.

Obviously there are big Chinese strategic assets at play in Burma. We're aware of that but I believe also there's a force at work within China which wants to see it assume a greater global international posture, which is not just drawn down all the time by association with some of the world's most obnoxious regimes.

PAUL KELLY: On some of these [issues] Mr Rudd there is a moral factor, if you like a moral crusade, at work here. I'm just wondering to what extent you think in a direct or maybe more indirect way this could have consequences for the entire Asian region. There is a cause here. Do you think that the power over this idea, the power of freedom and democracy will take heart at this event from a wider sense and have implications for the region?

KEVIN RUDD: Well I began my remarks Paul today by saying that Aung San Suu Kyi is not just an icon for democracy within Burma, but an icon for democracy across the world. And of course that speaks across Asia as well.

There is something very powerful about this idea and its ideal. It's irrepressible. People wish constantly, wherever they are, to extend the tent of freedom, that is being able to make free choices about what they say, about where they go, about what job they get, about their ability to travel. These are very fundamental freedoms.

Often in the west, as you know, in this country Australia, we take these freedoms for granted. But there is something universally potent about this idea which is irrepressible. It will bubble up, it will be knocked to one side in various parts of the world from time to time, but it bubbles up again.

Our job as democracies in the family of democracies around the world is to continue to adhere to one core principle and that is that for us democracy and universal human rights and precisely that. These are universal values and therefore it is part of who we are as Australia and part of who we are, as members of the western community of nations, to constantly hold up this universal value, even though that's going to create political friction from time to time and sometimes that friction can get a bit rough.

PETER VAN ONSELEN: Mr Rudd, we'll let you go. We do appreciate you joining us on Australian Agenda to give us your reactions to Aung San Suu Kyi's release as well as its implications for the [audio drop out]. Thank you very much.

KEVIN RUDD: Thanks for having us on the program.

END

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