Transcript of Interview with Steve Price, Melbourne Talk Program

Subjects: Mary MacKillop Canonisation; Afghanistan parliamentary debate

Transcript, E&OE

18 October 2010

STEVE PRICE: It is 18 October and Australia has its first saint. Mary MacKillop will now be known as St Mary of the Cross. Now I don't pretend to understand the overall importance of this as a non-Catholic but our newspapers this morning are full of Hail Mary's and what a great way to start the week with such a great news story.

We'll take you to Rome straight away, and the Foreign Affairs Minister Kevin Rudd's been good enough to join us. Mr Rudd good morning.

KEVIN RUDD: Good morning Steve, how are you?

STEVE PRICE: I'm well. Are you feeling proud as an Australian there in Rome today?

KEVIN RUDD: Absolutely, and together with probably about 10,000 other Australians here. The great thing about St Peter's Square today it was full of Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, oi, oi, oi.

So whether it's at the Olympics or it's St Peter's Square, the Australian people here and I think back home were pretty inspired by this event.

STEVE PRICE: I know you've had a long-term personal interest in this. I once spotted you on a Saturday morning when you were prime minister at that chapel in North Sydney, you've had a long running interest in her affairs haven't you?

KEVIN RUDD: Well I got to know over many, many years now the good sisters of St Joseph, that's Mary MacKillop's order. They - when I was Prime Minister they of course have a convent not all that far from Kirribilli House, so I'd drop in for a cup of tea every now and then, have a chat with the nuns, talk to them about their challenges in supporting this canonisation.

And they're an impressive bunch of women as they were in Mary MacKillop's day setting up schools right across the country. There's still a - more than 1000 of them around Australia and around our region today doing the same sort of stuff which Mary MacKillop sought to do more than a hundred - 150 years ago.

STEVE PRICE: There's a uniqueness to her also isn't there Mr Rudd in that she - she was not the sort of person who condo... who actually conformed all the time. She was a bit of a rebel?

KEVIN RUDD: I think that's what appeals to the Australian psyche about Mary MacKillop is that she - Mary MacKillop was no goody-two-shoes. She was someone who knew what her conviction was and that was to minister to the poor and to provide education to the poor and she wasn't going to let any hierarchy of blokes stand in her way and so off she went and she did what she did.

As a result as you know for a period she was ex-communicated from the Church. And I was sitting today with the Polish President who is particularly taken and amused by the fact that - that our candidature for sainthood had been ex-communicated by the Church. He was pretty impressed by that as well.

STEVE PRICE: It absolutely - also the discussion about her puts a light back on religion back in Australia and people starting to think again about their religious beliefs. I mean the coverage that this has had has been quite amazing.

KEVIN RUDD: I think whether people are religious or not, whether they are of faith or not, or whether they are Catholic or not, something about Mary MacKillop's intrinsic story was just - is a good story. It's about a good woman who did really good things.

You know how, Steve, so much of, you know, political life and media life gets coloured by cynicism, every now and then we should just, you know, draw a breath, stand back and have a look at someone like this who's done a fantastic thing and just say yeah, that's a really good thing. And what the Catholic Church through its own traditions and institutions today was doing was honouring such a woman and she was one of ours, native born, Australian born and capable of making Australian proud.

STEVE PRICE: I noticed the Delezio family were there Mr Rudd, did you have a chance to say g'day to Sophie?

KEVIN RUDD: I did actually. In fact I ran into them completely by accident, happenstance or whatever as I was walking some of the pilgrims' route of Mary MacKillop yesterday. There's a little book handed out by the Josephite nuns which describes the places that were near and dear to Mary MacKillop's heart when she lived in Rome in 1873, 1874.

And as a consequence of all of that I spent a bit of time in what's called the Gesu Church, which is the Church of the Jesuits and where the founder of the Jesuits Ignatius Loyola had died. So I'm sitting in there having a look around the room which is where Mary MacKillop was, you know, 140, 150 years ago. And then who should walk in but the Delezio family [laughs]. It was terrific.

So then I sat and had a chat with Sophie and she's a - she's a wonderful little girl and seeking her own inspiration from St Mary MacKillop. It was really - it was a good time, a good conversation with her.

STEVE PRICE: Yeah she's a beauty. I'll explain to our audience exactly what she's been through. Just before I let you go, you're on our way back, we're going to have a parliamentary debate about Afghanistan this week. How important is that?

KEVIN RUDD: Well in democracy and any modern democracy like Australia, Parliament's supreme. So these debates could and should occur. The bottom line is we're doing the right thing in Afghanistan by being there. Remember, it's only nine years ago that 3000 people were murdered by terrorists in New York and that included some 20 Australians in the twin towers. They then tried to attack Washington and take out the Pentagon. That's why we were there originally.

Our mission now in Uruzgan, a province that we have responsibility for, is to train the Afghan National Army to take over responsibility for security of the province, train the local police and the Australian Federal Police have now taken over control of the police academy in Tarin Kowt the capital of Uruzgan province and to build up the capacity of the provincial government to deliver basic health and education services, and we're doing that as well.

That's our mission.

We're doing well in the execution of that mission. It will take a little while yet. But obviously it's subject to the scrutiny of the parliament and the views of the Australian people.

STEVE PRICE: It's great to catch up with you, thanks a lot, I look forward to speaking to you again. Thanks Kevin.

KEVIN RUDD: Thanks Steve, look after yourself.

STEVE PRICE: Good on you. Kevin Rudd there, Foreign Affairs Minister.

END

Media enquiries