Interview with Eddie Mair, PM Program, BBC Radio

Subjects: Afghanistan; domestic politics; British Labour Party

Transcript, E&OE, proof only

14 October 2010

EDDIE MAIR: A report in the New York Times today says US led forces in Afghanistan are permitting senior Taliban leaders to move freely around the country, to allow them to attend peace talks in Kabul. The paper says it's the clearest indication of US support for high level talks aimed at ending the war.

For now though, the war goes on. And among the countries with troops on the ground, despite public disquiet at home, Australia. I've been hearing from the country's Foreign Minister, Kevin Rudd. He's in Brussels at the moment talking about how to help Pakistan build up its counter insurgency capabilities. Mr Rudd, you'll remember, was Prime Minister until recently when he was ousted by Julia Gillard. But during the election campaign, she asked him to help her win, which she did, just.

Now as I say, he's Foreign Minister, he's visiting Brussels and when he spoke to us this afternoon, we started with the Australian presence in Afghanistan.

KEVIN RUDD: We've said that the task of military training will take between two and four years to complete and we, like other countries, of course would like to be not in Afghanistan for one day longer than is absolutely necessary.

EDDIE MAIR: But this is a mission which many Australians don't seem to support.

KEVIN RUDD: Well the challenge for all democratically elected governments is to stay the course with Afghanistan. You see doing the right thing in international relations and in strategic policy doesn't always mean that you're doing the popular thing. But I believe, as does the Government, that this is the right course of action for Australia. Let us always recall the reasons why we entered Afghanistan in the first place and that was the horrific events of September 11, which should remain etched in the memory of all members of the human family.

EDDIE MAIR: But even the United States, which of course has more reason to remember 9/11 than any other countries, is according to a report out of Brussels in the New York Times today, permitting the movement of senior Taliban leaders to attend peace talks in Kabul. American support for talking to the Taliban, for talking to the supposed enemy, is very much there isn't it?

KEVIN RUDD: On the question of policy towards Afghanistan, it's always important to see it in two distinct but related thrusts. One of course is direct military action, the counter insurgency action against Al Qaeda. The second of course is to build up the capacity of the local government, to build up the capacity of the local armed forces and police to take on security responsibility. But also to create a sustainable political environment in which - under which political stability can be guaranteed into the future.

That means therefore under this process of reconciliation that under the guidance of the Afghan government in Kabul that dialogue will occur with political forces within Afghanistan, who are committed to the Afghan constitution, are committed to laying down their arms and are committed to a process of building a stable Pakistan into the future. It's a policy we support as well.

EDDIE MAIR: I know you've been flying all over the world, Brussels. Will you be coming to London?

KEVIN RUDD: I look forward to being in the UK in the earlier parts of next year. I saw William Hague most recently at the United Nations General Assembly.

EDDIE MAIR: Is that not odd, to fly all this way and not go a little further?

KEVIN RUDD: Well the - La Manche is still there to be crossed.

EDDIE MAIR: Don't have to swim it any more.

KEVIN RUDD: The - over there we call it the English Channel. Look, I look forward to spending some time in the UK soon. I spoke to William Hague at some length in New York. We had a good discussion. We look forward to welcoming him down under early in the New Year. William reminded me that it's some 20 years since a British foreign secretary visited Australia. So before you give me lip mate about when I get to the UK, bear that in mind.

EDDIE MAIR: I was just wondering.

KEVIN RUDD: But I'll be there very early in the New Year, as I am in Britain in one capacity or another every year that I care to remember, going back many, many decades.

EDDIE MAIR: A couple of final points, if you have a moment. You were of course Prime Minister of your country, ousted by Julia Gillard but you returned to help her during the election campaign and I've heard that described in various ways. I've heard it described as gracious, patriotic. Is there a single word you would use to describe what you've been doing?

KEVIN RUDD: Well in political life, it's important to always remember that the principles under which you enter political life are those you continue to adhere to. So why am I in the political process? Because I do believe that you can do concrete practical things to better the lives of ordinary people at home and abroad. And that means being committed in my case to the principles of the Australian Labor Party. It means being committed to the election and the work of an Australian Labor government and that's what I have done in whatever capacity that I may have.

How that affects your individual political interests and ambitions at a particular time, well, that's to one side. There are higher interests at stake than that. And my good friend and colleague, Gordon Brown, I know to be a person who has deep convictions himself about his continued responsibilities in British public life. So there are swings and roundabouts in politics, ups and downs, we all know that. But the key thing, the key thing is to continue to do that which you believe to be right and I think I've got a few things to contribute yet.

EDDIE MAIR: Well one last thought, having mentioned Gordon Brown, I wonder if you've any advice for David Milliband who left the Labour front bench in the UK after being beaten by his brother.

KEVIN RUDD: Well I have many friends in British politics. Gordon is one, David is another and Ed is another. As for David's political future, far be it for me, from the distance of the Antipodes to provide him with career advice as to what he should or shouldn't do.

EDDIE MAIR: But you seem perfectly well placed, given what you've just been through. You're doing it for the party and you're doing it for the country.

KEVIN RUDD: David is a person who will make his contribution in his own way and I'm sure David Milliband's going to make a big contribution in British and international public life in the years ahead and I wish him well, as I do his brother.

EDDIE MAIR: Australia's Foreign Minister, Kevin Rudd.

END

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