Transcript of Interview with Jim Middleton Newsline, ABC News 24

Subjects: Effects of floods in Pakistan; Friends of Democratic Pakistan Meeting, Regional Processing Framework, Afghanistan

Transcript, E&OE, proof only

14 October 2010

JIM MIDDLETON: As if Pakistan did not have enough to worry about, now there's the fallout from massive floods, which have left no fewer than six million people entirely dependent on aid.

Communications shattered and key export industries on their beam-ends.

Pakistan needs massive assistance, but many countries are proving less than forthcoming.

Australian Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd's now in Brussels to take part in a conference of the Friends of Democratic Pakistan.

Foreign Minister, welcome to the program.

KEVIN RUDD: It's a pleasure to be with you.

JIM MIDDLETON: The floods in Pakistan and their fallout amount to the worst natural disaster in that country's history. Australia's already contributing $75 million in disaster relief. Can you be sure though that the aid will get to those people who need it most, given Pakistan's record of widespread corruption?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, we're confident that the way in which we have allocated these funds, principally through the UN agencies, but also through our direct work on the ground ourselves in the Southern Punjab will, in fact, deliver the services on the ground.

On top of that, we're also dedicating some, I think, nine to ten million dollars of that amount directly through reputable Australian NGOs, such as World Vision, Caritas and others.

Therefore, we are confident that this is going to hit the mark, help people on the ground. The key thing is to make sure the rest of the international community continue to roll up their arm in the recovery efforts from what has been an extraordinary natural disaster.

Pakistan is important to the world, it's important to Australia. We have no interest whatsoever in Pakistan not being able to perform its functions as a properly functioning and ordered state. If it failed to do so, then, frankly, the consequences for all in our region, including movements of refugees, would be huge.

JIM MIDDLETON: You talked about the international community rolling up its sleeves. I think it's fair to say that there has been a certain degree of reluctance by countries around the world to ante-up. Is that, in a sense, what this conference you're attending in Brussels now is designed to achieve?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, Friends of Democratic Pakistan brings together about 25 foreign ministers from around the region and around the world who are committed to one core proposition, and that is, making sure that Pakistan continues to work, continues to function and continues to be able to do its job as a viable democratic state.

We're in there to support our friends in Islamabad to do that. The rest of the international community, together with Australia, who are at this meeting in Brussels, not just to deal with the immediacy of the problems with the floods, but on the broader tasks of development for Pakistan as well.

So much of the challenge for Pakistan, a huge country of 170 million people, lies in how, in fact, you make its economy work more effectively. That's why we're all committed to supporting what is called a Pakistan development forum which will convene a meeting in Islamabad before long, about getting the rest of the economy going as well. Not just the immediacy of dealing with this humanitarian disaster called the floods.

JIM MIDDLETON: Six million people are currently entirely dependent on aid. Do you worry that this may encourage more asylum seekers to leave Pakistan?

KEVIN RUDD: Jim, we have no evidence of that at this stage. But as I have said consistently in the past, going back many, many years, if you are dealing with the question of refugees worldwide, and this applies to all countries, not just Australia, you must be dealing, firstly, with source countries, secondly, with transit countries and, thirdly, of course, with destination countries.

Now, when it comes to Pakistan, we, together with the rest of the international community, have a fundamental interest in making sure that there is a reasonable level of well-being within the country itself, as would not create a further push factor around the world. That's our task in Pakistan. That's why we're taking such a prominent role, not just in this humanitarian disaster which, as you said, leaves some six million people now fully dependent on the international community or, more broadly, on the aid community, to find their livelihoods, but also to make sure into the future that the state of Pakistan remains viable and that, therefore, it can support its population, and they don't contribute, therefore, to this worldwide pool of already some 42, 43 million people who are categorised by the UNHCR as either internationally or internally displaced persons.

JIM MIDDLETON: Before we return to South Asia, asylum seekers, as you know, have been a pressure point in foreign relations between Australia and its South-East Asian neighbours for many years now. Do you think that Jakarta has legitimate grounds to fear that an asylum seeker processing centre in East Timor may attract even more asylum seekers to Indonesia, that it may become a magnet for asylum seekers, given it's so close to the Indonesian archipelago?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, first and foremost, Jim, I don't wish to characterise the views of the Indonesian Government in any way. That's a matter for them and, in the case of foreign ministry, my good friend Marty Natalegawa.

Secondly, Minister Bowen, the Minister for Immigration, has, of course, in the last few days been in East Timor and then, subsequently, in Indonesia.

In my discussions with the Indonesian Foreign Minister, and his East Timorese counterpart together in a trilateral discussion in New York, we agreed that these questions will be advanced through the Bali Process.

We're working out with the Indonesians now when that meeting had best next occur. Because it involves, not just the three of us, but a whole range of regional countries, dealing again with source countries, transit countries and destination countries.

So, I think I'd much rather leave it until we're through that before we get to the specifics of the question you ask about a particular centre and a particular place.

JIM MIDDLETON: Returning to South Asia, there are informal negotiations, but apparently of increasing seriousness under way between Afghanistan's government and the Taliban and other war lords. Do you share the fear of some in Pakistan and some in official circles that an end to the conflict with the Taliban given some legitimacy of some kind in Afghanistan could increase the terrorist threat against Pakistan?

KEVIN RUDD: The challenge we have in Afghanistan is to prosecute a two-pronged approach. One, of course, deals with the continued military campaign against the insurgency. The other is to deal with how do you best transition Afghanistan into a country which is reliant on its own security forces, one which has better governance and a greater capacity to deal basic services in health and education to its people, but on top of that again, one which is engaged in a process of political reconciliation with forces within the country who forswear violence, committed to the Afghan constitution, and who want to be part of the overall political compact of that country.

That's the two prongs that we in the international community are pursuing in our strategy towards Afghanistan.

Now, this must be led by the Afghan Government itself. It's democratically elected, despite the imperfections of the election process.

And the Afghans themselves are engaged in their own reconciliation efforts with various forces across the country. We'll be monitoring it closely, together with the Americans and together with our ISAF partners, but reconciliation with those forces in the country who wish to forswear violence, who wish to put their arms away and surrender their arms, and who wish to get on with the business of abiding by the framework of constitutional government in that country, that's all for the better.

JIM MIDDLETON: Foreign Minister, we better leave it there. Thank you very much.

KEVIN RUDD: Thanks very much, Jim.

END

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