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DAVID SPEERS:      Foreign Minister Stephen Smith will be in Indonesia this week for talks over there about the issue of people smuggling.

Sky News political reporter, Ashleigh Gillon, in Perth caught up with Stephen Smith earlier today.

REPORTER:  You're heading to Jakarta this week. What has been the initial reaction from that country in terms of your plans to set up a regional processing centre in East Timor? Reports suggest that they're not exactly thrilled with the idea.

STEPHEN SMITH:    Well those reports aren't right. Firstly, my trip to Jakarta has been planned for some time, and when the Prime Minister made her speech last week, that day I spoke to my Indonesian counterpart, Marty Natalegawa, and we agreed that the best way to conduct a full and formal briefing and have a conversation was in the course of my trip to Jakarta.

But our officials in Jakarta alerted Indonesian officials to the fact the Prime Minister was making the speech. We work very closely with Indonesia on asylum seeker and people smuggling matters. We chair the Bali Process together and my counterpart's comments have been, as I would expect, that this is a matter that we need to consider and discuss in detail - which we will.

REPORTER:  But the Bali Process never recommended this sort of regional processing centre, did it? So the Indonesians would no doubt be pretty surprised at the path Julia Gillard's now taking.

STEPHEN SMITH:    Neither I nor Chris Evans has ever asserted that this was a formal part of the Bali Process agenda, what has occurred since Australia and Indonesia reconstituted the Bali Process ministerial level meeting last year. What has occurred is a lot of work by officials on trying to get a better regional framework.

For the first occasion we've had a regional leader who has said it might be a good idea to progress a regional processing centre as part of that regional framework. So Chris Evans and I have said that this is a concept or a proposal which, in a very informal way, Australian officials and Minister Evans and I have had a conversation about. But for the first time we see one of our regional leaders, the Prime Minister, taking the matter up and the policy benefits of a regional processing centre are quite clear.

You would have, on the basis that it was supported by the region, supported by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, one system for the region and you would avoid the incentive for people getting on boats and putting themselves at risk. And you would take away part of the business attraction for people smugglers.

REPORTER:  Can the idea of the processing centre in East Timor work without the support from Indonesia?

STEPHEN SMITH:    We've made clear, the need for a regional processing centre: obviously the support of a country itself; it needs to be, in our view, a country that is party to the Refugee Convention, which East Timor is. But it does need to have regional support.

Indonesia is a key partner in that respect. We co-chair the Bali Process together. But what we're doing is qualitatively different from the Howard Government's efforts, which were unilateral, bilateral arrangements with countries like Nauru; which not only didn't have the support of the United Nations' High Commissioner for Refugees, but were very strongly criticised by them.

So ours is an effort at a much more long-term enduring, sustainable regional solution. Yes, Australia has very many complicated problems and issues caused by the movement of people, but as do other countries in the region, whether it's Indonesia, Sri Lanka or other countries.

REPORTER:  But if Indonesia's support is so crucial, why wasn't this something that you worked with the Indonesians on before announcing it last week? Why has it taken a week for you to go and talk this through?

STEPHEN SMITH:    I've made the point to you earlier. Before the Prime Minister's speech, Indonesian officials were alerted to her speech by Australian officials in Jakarta, firstly.

REPORTER:  But they haven't given any indication that there...

STEPHEN SMITH:    Secondly, on the day of the speech I spoke to my counterpart. We agreed that to pursue this matter in detailed terms, the best thing to do was for him and I to sit down in Jakarta this week as part of a visit to Jakarta, which had been planned for some time.

REPORTER:  But you haven't had any initial flagging that Indonesia is going to be willing to support this I hear?

STEPHEN SMITH:    The response from Indonesia, both publicly and privately, has been as I would expect it: you've indicated a proposal, we're very keen to sit down and have a conversation with you about that.

Now I've made this point before. People who think that a proposal like this can be announced on Day One with a top hat and a bow tie on top as a completed final package, don't frankly understand the reality.

And the Prime Minister made it clear, as have I and Chris Evans, that this was a proposal which we were launching. We have entered into discussions with East Timor, and from the first moment, our officials throughout the region have been briefing other countries, interested countries, on the substance of the Prime Minister's speech and our desire to pursue the proposal and the fact of our discussions with East Timor. And today, Australian officials are in Dili in discussions with East Timorese officials about progressing the matter.

REPORTER:  Have you or Chris Evans though got any plans to go to East Timor and spearhead these discussions?

If this is such a priority, shouldn't you be on the ground securing support from at least East Timor before you get permission from the rest of the region?

STEPHEN SMITH:    Well when I spoke to Zacarias da Costa, my East Timorese counterpart, we discussed whether I should go to Timor this week. And we came to the conclusion that in the first instance, the best thing to do was to put our officials together, and once our officials have spoken, for him and I to then speak again.

But obviously at some stage there's a need for me and for Chris Evans to sit down directly with East Timorese Ministers and pursue the matter.  But we have an agreed process with East Timor. That process, in terms of officials getting together, starts today in Dili and when Zacarias da Costa, my East Timorese counterpart, and I get a report from those officials, we'll then have a further conversation about it.

REPORTER:  There's no guarantee though is there, that this centre is going to be built in Labor's second term assuming you win one?

STEPHEN SMITH:    We haven't put a timetable on it. What we have made absolutely clear is we do see this as a positive initiative to undercut people smugglers and to enable, not just Australia, but other countries in the region, to manage the movement of people better, to manage this very difficult and complex issue better.

We'd like to do it as soon as possible, but because we want regional support, because we want the support of the United Nations' High Commissioner for Refugees, we're not putting a timetable on it.  But we are applying ourselves to this very diligently and very purposefully, but we're not trying to trick the Australian people into believing, as Tony Abbott would, that somehow there's a magical solution about these things, that somehow, as he has put it, that you can turn boats back and that will solve the problem. And I see today Philip Ruddock indicating that that was not something that the Howard Government was able to do after 2003.

So there's no magic solution as Tony Abbott would have people believe. We need to get a long-term enduring, sustainable solution with the region that the region supports.

REPORTER:  On climate change, the Government's shelved the ETS for another couple of years. Do you expect that in that time we'll see an international agreement on climate change?

STEPHEN SMITH:    Prime Minister Gillard has made it clear that she sees this issue obviously as a very high priority, that she wants to try and build a consensus both domestically and internationally for an emissions trading scheme. We would already have an emissions trading scheme in Australia if the Liberal Party and the Greens had supported our legislation.

REPORTER:  But how likely is it that international consensus on this will happen within the next couple of years before you're going to look at the ETS?

STEPHEN SMITH:    We know that Copenhagen was a disappointment for us in very many respects, but we continue to work very hard both domestically and internationally to get support for positive and firm action on climate change.

REPORTER:  And how confident would you be that that would happen in the next two years?

STEPHEN SMITH:    What I'm very confident about is that we will continue to work until the election. And if we're re-elected, after the election, we’ll work to secure support within Australia and internationally for an emissions trading scheme.

I mean, in the end from Australia's domestic point of view, people will have a very clear choice at the election, a choice between Tony Abbott who is a climate change sceptic, who wears his climate change scepticism like a badge of honour, and Julia Gillard and the Labor Government, who want to progress this matter. We would already have...

REPORTER:  Are you planning to legislate for an ETS in your second term?

STEPHEN SMITH:    ...we would already have an emissions trading scheme legislated for in Australia if we had the support of the Liberal Party and Tony Abbot and the support of the Greens.

REPORTER:  You don't though now, but after the election it could be a different story in the Senate, so are you planning to legislate for an ETS within your second term?

STEPHEN SMITH:    The Prime Minister has already made it clear that in the first instance she wants to meet the timetable that we've previously marked out as a Government, that we need to build domestic and international support for that effort.

But it's also clearly the case that the Prime Minister in the course of the immediate period will have something more to say about climate change, but I make a couple of very simple points.  If we had the support of Tony Abbott and the Liberal Party there would already be an emissions trading scheme in place, firstly.

Secondly, from Australia's perspective, trying to pursue action on climate change in the international arena, the Australian public can have a Government that is led by Tony Abbott making that international effort, a self-professed, self-proclaimed climate change sceptic, or it can Julia Gillard and the Labor Government who wants to make substantial and real progress on this front, both domestically and internationally.

REPORTER:  How do you define community consensus domestically, because this is a Government, we keep being told, that isn't going to govern on the polls. So how do you know when that community consensus has been reached?

STEPHEN SMITH:    Well at the election, for example, there will be a clear choice. We'll have Tony Abbott's climate change policy and scepticism, and you'll have Julia Gillard's and the Labor Party's climate change...

REPORTER:  ... and if they choose yours, can Australians know that you will legislate for an ETS in your second term?

STEPHEN SMITH:   The Prime Minister has made it clear that she wants to meet the timetable that we've previously outlined.

REPORTER:  Which is?

STEPHEN SMITH:    Well, 2012, 2013, that's the point she's made. 

REPORTER:  So legislation for an ETS before that? Before the next election?

STEPHEN SMITH:    Subject to getting re-elected and subject to community support for that and subject to building international consensus. But...

REPORTER:  That's a lot of subject tos.

STEPHEN SMITH:    But the key thing is trying to get support within the Australian domestic circumstance, and you won't get that support if you have a Tony Abbott Prime Ministership and a Tony Abbott Government, that's a clear starting point for the Australian people.

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