7.30 Report interview with Kerry O'Brien
Topic: Misuse of Australian passports
Transcript, proof E&OE
24 May 2010
KERRY O'BRIEN: The Foreign Minister joins me now from Canberra.
Stephen Smith, you said in quite blunt terms today, certainly diplomatically, that Israel's actions in misusing Australian passports in the assassination were not the actions of a friend. How fundamental, how serious a breach of faith, or a breach of trust, does this represent?
STEPHEN SMITH: It's very serious, Kerry, which is why the Government has, after very carefully considering the advice from the intelligence community and also the Australian Federal Police and also the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, carefully considered that advice and made the decision to ask an Israeli official from the Israeli Embassy to depart within the week.
We can't stand idly by and have our passport system abused. We can't stand idly by and come to a conclusion on the basis of the best possible advice that Israel is responsible for these matters without a response and that's what we've done today. But I'm very hopeful that we can rebuild trust, rebuild confidence, put this behind us — because Australia and Israel have been firm friends since Israel's inception as a nation.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Is it beyond doubt that the legitimate passport holders had absolutely no knowledge of Israel's intentions to use their passports?
STEPHEN SMITH: We're very strong on the advice that we've always received, which is there is no evidence to cause Australian officials or the Government anything but to believe that the four Australians were innocent victims of a passport fraud. We've also concluded, on the basis of the advice, that such was the quality of the forging and the counterfeiting and the cloning that it could only have been done by a state security or intelligence agency with the necessary expertise, and also on the basis of the careful considered investigation and advice of the Australian Federal Police, ASIO, ASIS and the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade that Israel was responsible. And they are the three essential conclusions of an exhaustive, careful investigation and consideration of that advice from our national security agencies.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Now it's implied strongly, but I don't think you've actually said anywhere, that there is no doubt that the Israeli team actually carried out the assassination; not just that they used Australian and other passports falsely, but that they actually carried out the assassination?
STEPHEN SMITH: We have focused on the abuse of Australian passports. That has been the concern that has motivated Australia, the concern for the integrity of our system and indeed concern for our sovereignty. But because there is an ongoing investigation in the United Arab Emirates, I have and the Government has assiduously avoided making any reference to the assassination per se or the assassination itself. That is appropriately left for further consideration by the Dubai and the United Arab Emirates authorities.
KERRY O'BRIEN: What is your advice about the likelihood of Mossad acting on its own in this way or whether it would have had the nod or approval at ministerial level in the Israeli Government for the use of foreign passports in this fraudulent way?
STEPHEN SMITH: One of the reasons that the Government has responded as we have — and as I said in the Parliament, effectively, and in my press conference — much more with sorrow than with anger, because this was not the act of a friend.
This is not the first occasion where there has been misuse of an Australian passport by Israeli agencies. And following the previous example of misuse, Israel and Australia entered into an understanding that this would not recur. And so we regard what has occurred as effectively being authorised by Israel. That is the certainly the advice that we have received and my consideration of it and the Government's national security consideration of it, leads absolutely to that conclusion.
So we don't believe in any way that we're dealing with a rogue operation here. This was sanctioned by the state of Israel and that's why we have responded in the way that we have and why in very many respects we're distressed by it.
KERRY O'BRIEN: The British Government expelled the Mossad station head in London. It seems a safe assumption that you followed the British template here and there are further reports that the person expelled here is definitely a Mossad agent. Why are you being coy about that?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well because I'm following what we regard as the appropriate foreign policy and diplomatic response here. We've asked Israel to remove one of its officers. As I've said publicly, people will draw their own conclusions about that. But I'm not proposing to identify either by name or by function the individual concerned.
We haven't slavishly followed here the British approach. Yes, the outcome in terms of requiring a removal is substantively the same, but we have conducted our own investigation, we have acted on our own advice, careful consideration of our agency's reports.
If all we were doing was mirroring the United Kingdom, we would have done it much more quickly. If all we were doing, as the Deputy Leader of the Opposition asserts; if all we were doing was being political, we wouldn't have taken such time giving it careful consideration.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Is this wink-and-a-nod stuff where you take — you go through the diplomatic dance, but that at an intelligence level our spies say to their spies, "Fair cop, guys. You've been caught at this. Keep your head down for a while and things will get back to normal fairly soon. See you soon"?
STEPHEN SMITH: We have expelled, effectively, a diplomat. There will be necessarily a cooling or a cooling-off period so far as the relationship between our respective intelligence agencies is concerned.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Does that really matter? I mean, what does it actually mean in reality?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well it does. It is very important, Kerry. Traditionally we have had a very good relationship at that agency or intelligence community level with Israel. We are dealing with very serious national security issues where there are mutual interests or mutual concerns, for example, Iran's nuclear program. I don't know how long the cooling-off period will be, but certainly it is in Israel's and Australia's long-term interests for this matter to be put behind us. But we can only put it behind us if Israel conducts itself genuinely as a friend.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Well you've talked about Iran's nuclear program., you'd be aware of the revelation in The Guardian newspaper today in Britain based on official South African documents that Israel had offered to sell nuclear warheads to Apartheid-era South Africa, in fact offered them in three sizes. Does that suggest to you that Israel could be counted on as a "responsible nuclear citizen", and do you agree it's embarrassing as Israel's biggest ally, America, pushes hard to stop Iran getting nuclear weapons?
STEPHEN SMITH: I've seen reference to the article, Kerry; I haven't had the opportunity of having it carefully assessed. But the suggestion that Israel has nuclear weapons is not a novel suggestion.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Well, not at all, but the fact that they were trying to flog off nuclear warheads to the Apartheid regime of South Africa puts it in another light, too.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well I'm not in a position to independently attest to that one way or the other. It is a very sensible thing to do, Kerry, when you're dealing with national security matters, to not, unlike the Leader of the Opposition, run off in response to newspaper articles.
So, I say advisedly, I haven't had that carefully assessed. We know the suggestion's been made in the past. We know that Israel has a long-standing policy of stated ambiguity so far as possession of nuclear weapons or not is concerned. Our strong policy position, which we put not just to Israel but to others, is that Israel should join the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and do that without conditions.
KERRY O'BRIEN: We're out of time, Stephen Smith, but thanks for talking with us.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks, Kerry. Thanks very much.
[ENDS]
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