Transcript, E&OE
17 November, 2009
Interview - Fran Kelly, Breakfast, Radio National
Subjects: Visit of President Yudhoyono, Oceanic Viking, asylum seekers, Sri Lanka
FRAN KELLY: Foreign Minister Stephen Smith joins us now in our Parliament House studio. Minister, good morning.
STEPHEN SMITH: Good morning, Fran.
FRAN KELLY: Minister, first the visit of the Indonesian President, Yudhoyono. He was expected to be in Australia, I think arriving on the weekend. Why isn't he coming?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well there are scheduling difficulties. A couple of dates have been suggested between officials, but they haven't worked out because of the President's domestic obligations.
Scheduling difficulties always arise when you have these State visits. We've made it clear to the President there's a standing invitation for him to come to Australia.
Now, it may well be he comes before the end of year, but I think more likely, because we want him to address both Houses of Parliament, it will be in the first half or the first quarter of next year.
But I've had discussions with my counterpart, Foreign Minister Natalegawa about this. He made it clear to me when I spoke to him first up at APEC that there were scheduling difficulties and it may not be possible for the President to come this year.
FRAN KELLY: Because these sorts of visits usually aren't a last minute thing. The Opposition says the President's no-show exposes cracks in the Australian-Indonesia relationship, driven primarily by the stand-off of the Oceanic Viking.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well sometimes you see overstatements and sometimes you see massive overstatements and I think the Opposition on this matter should just quietly calm down.
There was no official announcement by Australia or Indonesia that the visit was on and that's because discussions were continuing. And it is a very, very long bow to make the suggestion that because of scheduling difficulties there's any wider problem.
Our relations with Indonesia are very, very good. They're first class and I've made the point repeatedly in the course of the Government's time in office that we inherited a good relationship with Indonesia from our predecessors. It wasn't always the case, but at the time of the handover to the current Government, relations with Indonesia were very good and they've been taken to a new level and both Australia and Indonesia acknowledge that.
FRAN KELLY: I know that you had talks with your Indonesian counterpart in Singapore during the APEC meeting. The Prime Minister also met the President briefly on the sidelines. Have the Indonesians given you a deadline to get the Oceanic Viking out of their waters?
STEPHEN SMITH: No. I've spoken on a number of occasions to my counterpart, both at APEC on a couple of occasions we had dinner, and after we spoke about the depth and breadth of the relationship, and we spoke about this issue. We both intend to be, as we've made clear, patient about this. We want the remaining 56 people on the boat to come off in a calm and peaceful manner so that their processing can start in Indonesia.
FRAN KELLY: Why is it proving so hard to get the last 56 people off?
STEPHEN SMITH: Because we don't want to, as we've made clear, force them off the boat, nor does Indonesia. As my colleague, the Immigration Minister has made clear, that in the past we've seen very bad examples where people have tried to push, where we've seen incidents of self harm. So we're treating it methodically and calmly. We don't want to make the situation worse. We've made it clear from day one that we have an abundance of patience in this matter, as do our Indonesian counterparts.
FRAN KELLY: An abundance of patience is one thing…
STEPHEN SMITH: Of course it's difficult.
FRAN KELLY: …Minister, but what if they don't budge? I mean you've - 22 have come off with the offer of quick processing. Fifty-six are not responding to that.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well people asked the same question before the 22 came off and it may well be the case that we have more patience than some commentators. But we will continue to apply ourselves together with the Indonesians and their officials in the same manner that we've been doing.
FRAN KELLY: So what are they being offered now? What is the offer on the table for those 56 aboard to try and convince them to get off that boat?
STEPHEN SMITH: It's not so much an offer. We have made it clear to the people on board the boat what the agreed arrangements are between Australia and Indonesia so far as processing and resettlement is concerned. That's been made clear after extensive discussions between Australia and Indonesia and those arrangements remain in place so far as Australia and Indonesia are concerned. We continue through our officials on the boat to urge those people to peacefully come off the boat to enable their processing in Indonesia through the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees to commence.
FRAN KELLY: The PM came under some heavy pressure in question time yesterday over whether the 22 asylum seekers who have left the Oceanic Viking were given any special treatment, offered any special deal. The PM denies a deal, but lets be honest here. Who else gets such speedy resettlement?
STEPHEN SMITH: We've made it clear that these arrangements are as a result of extensive discussions between Australia and Indonesia. Chris Evans, the Immigration Minister has made it clear that over the last two years, he's been in discussion with Indonesia about timetabling for assessments and resettlement, so…
FRAN KELLY: But no-one gets re-settled within four to six weeks. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it's unusual.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well these are special circumstances of a search and rescue operation. I think it's important that people return to that point. We rescued these people on the high seas. We agreed with Indonesia to take them to Indonesia and now we've agreed with Indonesia the timetabling for assessment and processing. We continue to urge the people on the boat to come off so that that processing can occur.
FRAN KELLY: So it is a special deal because they were special treatment…
STEPHEN SMITH: No, it's the special circumstances of a search and rescue. This was a search and rescue in Indonesian waters. Indonesia couldn't effect the search, couldn't effect the rescue. They asked us to assist. We did obviously which was the right thing to do, and as a consequence of that it was agreed that the Oceanic Viking would take them to Indonesia. So there are, it is a special, almost unique circumstance of a search and rescue in Indonesian waters, Indonesian search and rescue waters and we want this to conclude as a search and rescue operation.
FRAN KELLY: Minister, you were in Sri Lanka last week. What concrete proof is there that the Colombo Government can or will stop people smugglers leaving their shores with boatfuls of asylum seekers?
STEPHEN SMITH: Just as we know, there are large numbers of displaced people in Sri Lanka and we know that that is potentially causing a large numbers of movements from Sri Lanka. So that is occurring across the region from other countries, whether it's Afghanistan/Pakistan border area or other areas.
So we're dealing with large numbers of displaced people. We know we have a difficulty, which is one of the reasons that I went. We signed a memorandum so far as greater cooperation on people smuggling matters is concerned. But importantly, we also had extensive discussions about how Australia can help and how the international community can help get those displaced peoples out of the camps and re-settle them. But also urging the Sri Lankan Government to make sure that there's a political reconciliation, that there's a healing, so that all people in Sri Lanka believe they have a role to play in the country's future. It's very important Sri Lanka wins the peace, not just win a military battle.
FRAN KELLY: What about reports that the Sri Lankan Naval Force was really not interested in stopping the boats? In fact they were turning a blind eye because they don't mind if these people leave Sri Lanka. Did you address that?
STEPHEN SMITH: I was with the Chief of their Navy as part of the discussions I had with Foreign Minister Bogollagama and also the President, and the cooperation between the Sri Lankan Navy and Australian authorities is very good. The Admiral, the Vice-Admiral of the Navy made it clear he wanted that cooperation to be enhanced.
So, we're pleased with the cooperation against people smuggling and the criminal syndicates that work out of Sri Lanka. But the Memorandum of Understanding that we signed will take that cooperation to the higher level, including in areas of prosecution, and including in disrupting the criminal syndicates. So we're very pleased with the cooperation to date, but we believe that can be taken to an even higher level because of the high risk that we face as a result of large numbers of displaced people, not just in the immediate vicinity of our region, but generally throughout the world.
FRAN KELLY: Stephen Smith, reports that Indonesia is talking about deporting the 130 asylum seekers still aboard another boat in the Port of Merak back to Sri Lanka without processing. Have you talked to them about this? Would you support that?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well I haven't had a conversation with my counterpart about that, and I've seen those reports. But the Indonesian approach since 2001/2002 has been an immigration directive that anyone who comes to Indonesia and claims asylum is treated or dealt with by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in advance of any resettlement or sending back to their country of origin.
So, I haven't seen anything from Indonesia which would disturb that arrangement that's been in place for a considerable period of time. But this was a boat that was intercepted by Indonesian authorities within Indonesian waters. It's currently in Merak. It is a matter for the Indonesian authorities. But as I've said, I've seen nothing which would indicate a change from that longstanding procedure which the Indonesians adopted 2001/2002.
FRAN KELLY: Foreign Minister, to climate change now. US President, Barack Obama is making his first visit to China. China and the US are the real keys to climate change aren't they. Only Hu Jintao and Barack Obama really have the power and the wherewithal to deliver a climate change agreement.
Are you heartened by this visit then?
STEPHEN SMITH: I'm heartened by the visit of Barack Obama to North Asia. In the course of the last few days he's been to Japan, to China. He's on the way to South Korea, to Seoul and of course he was at Singapore for APEC.
The relationship between the United States and China is, in very many respects, the most important bilateral relationship at this point in this century. So, it's not just climate change. It's much more fundamental, much more broad-based than that.
But it's not just United States or China. It's of course also India and the relationship between United States and China. The relationship between United States and India and the relationship between China and India will be, in my view, seminal relationships in the course of this century. They're very important, all three countries to a good outcome at Copenhagen. But they're also very important to the international community and the state of our region in the course of this - the first half of this century.
FRAN KELLY: Stephen Smith, thank you very much for joining us on Breakfast.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks Fran. Thanks very much.
ENDS
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