Transcript, E&OE
12 November 2009
Interview - Sky News with David Speers
Subjects: Oceanic Viking, Afghanistan.
NEWSREADER: Indonesia has granted an extension for the Oceanic Viking to stay in its waters with still no end to the stand-off involving 78 asylum seekers onboard.
The Australian Government has offered quick re-settlement for those found to be refugees. But the Sri Lankans are refusing to budge, on the grounds they don't want to spend any time in the Indonesian detention centres.
Foreign Minister Stephen Smith has been holding talks with his Indonesian counterpart on the sidelines of this week's APEC meeting in Singapore, and the minister joins us from there now, and here to speak with him is SKY News political editor, David Speers.
DAVID SPEERS: Minister, welcome.
The Government has offered fast-track re-settlement for these asylum seekers on board the Oceanic Viking. It's not an offer you're making to other asylum seekers. This is special treatment you're offering here, isn't it?
STEPHEN SMITH: It is in accordance with the re-settlement arrangements that the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and Australia, and Indonesia and other countries have.
Yes, we have indicated to the asylum seekers on board that we think we can do that within prescribed or determined timetables. That's a good thing because we want to resolve this matter as quickly as possible.
There are a number of people on the boat who have already been ascribed or mandated refugee status, and so we certainly want to make sure that they are re-settled as quickly as possible.
So I don't think anyone would object to the notion that we want to try and resolve this matter as quickly as possible. We continue to be in discussions, both with Indonesia and also with the people on the boat.
DAVID SPEERS: But offering them re-settlement in Australia for those who are already found to be refugees within four to six weeks, and those who are yet to be found to be refugees once they are re-settled within 12 weeks. That would seem to be faster than the processing of even those asylum seekers on Christmas Island. So why not just take them there anyway?
STEPHEN SMITH: Because these are the timetables that our officials have discussed with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, also with Indonesian officials, and we believe these timetables can be met.
This is not a situation that we want to end with people coming off the boat and then turning our mind to how they are subsequently processed.
So these are the timetables that, in discussions with officials, both Indonesian, both United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and the people on the boat, these are the timetables which we believe can be met.
Now, our primary consideration and concern for the moment, of course, remains persuading the people to come off the boat, and we continue to apply ourselves very diligently to that. But we do not have within our consideration returning the Oceanic Viking to Christmas Island.
We want to discharge the obligation, the search and rescue obligation, and the agreement we entered into with Indonesia, which was to take these people to Indonesia and have them processed by the UNHCR in Indonesia. And if they're refugees, they will be re-settled in accordance with the agreement that Indonesia, the United Nations High Commissioner, Australia and other countries, like Canada, the United States, New Zealand, and the like, that's already been in place for a number of years. It was in place during the time that our predecessors were in office.
DAVID SPEERS: Well, the asylum seekers on board the Oceanic Viking, as you say, some of them already determined to be refugees, they're refusing this offer, because the sticking point seems to be where they are going to be held once they do disembark. They don't want to go into the detention centre at Tanjung Pinang. Have you spoken to your Indonesian counterpart about the possibility of some sort of community housing and what is - what sort of reaction are you getting?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, I'm certainly not going to go into the detail of my conversations with my Indonesian counterpart, Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa. It would be inappropriate to do that. But I can, of course, indicate that in my discussions with him, which occurred in the margins of the APEC meeting here in Singapore, we spoke about the array of issues that fall for consideration so far as the asylum seekers on the boat are concerned: accommodation or detention arrangements in Indonesia, re-settlement arrangements, and how they would be managed and treated.
So that is part of our ongoing discussions. I had a very good meeting with the Foreign Minister a couple of nights ago and, of course, we touched upon this issue. But we also touched upon all of the very important aspects of our bilateral relationship, which remains one of our strongest.
But we will continue to have discussions. I've made the point before and I make it again, the most important discussions on this matter are those which are conducted by our officials and Indonesian officials on the ground, both in Jakarta and in Tanjung Pinang, but also with the people on the boat.
Of course, Marty Natalegawa and I had a conversation about this. I suspect we'll have more, until such time as there is a successful outcome which is the people onboard the boat calmly, peacefully and cooperatively coming off the boat to be processed in Indonesia.
DAVID SPEERS: Can you tell us what the status is of the permit for the Oceanic Viking to stay in Indonesian waters? What's the situation there now?
STEPHEN SMITH: Again I've made this point over the recent period that Australia is proceeding on the basis of the point that my counterpart, Foreign Minister Natalegawa, made some time ago which is Indonesia has an abundance of patience on this matter, as does Australia. We regard the diplomatic clearance of the Oceanic Viking as essentially an administrative matter. The current permit expires on midnight on Friday. Processes are in hand for that to be renewed and that will be renewed.
So I know some people have focused on that as some form of deadline or timetable; that's never been the view of the Indonesian Government, or of the Australian Government. It is required for technical reasons, but that should not be seen as in any way determining, or defining a timetable.
We continue to have a great deal of patience. We're working through this closely, carefully and methodically with the Indonesians. And the technical diplomatic clearance of the Oceanic Viking is not a matter which is going to disturb those discussions and that ongoing patience.
DAVID SPEERS: Look, when it comes to dealing with this problem at its source, the Government is apparently considering allowing more immigrants from Sri Lanka. Can you tell us whether that is the case? Would they be brought in as refugees, or unskilled labour? How many are you talking about here?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well I was in Colombo, in Sri Lanka on Monday of this week and I had discussions again with my counterpart, Foreign Minister Bogollagama and also President Rajapaksa and, of course, our special representative Mr McCarthy, John McCarthy remains in Sri Lanka.
There were really three areas that I spoke about with Sri Lanka. One was greater cooperation so far as people smuggling is concerned, to crack down on the criminal syndicates who run people smuggling out of Sri Lanka.
Secondly, to try and help Sri Lanka resettle the very large number of displaced people from the camps by giving them further assistance to enable that to occur. It's very important that that does occur.
But thirdly, we also spoke about whether it was possible, within Australia's ordinary annual migration programs, to see whether more people from Sri Lanka would be open to apply for migration to Australia. The idea is that it would be something which would apply across the board, but which would undercut the attractiveness of the people smugglers to people in Sri Lanka.
We haven't gone into any great detail, but we have made the point to Sri Lanka that it is worthwhile Australia and Sri Lanka having a conversation about whether, within our ordinary annual migration program, we can do things which will undercut the attractiveness of the people smugglers, so that we don't have Sri Lankans at risk on the high seas which, of course, was the start of the Oceanic Viking matter.
DAVID SPEERS: Can I turn just briefly to Afghanistan Minister?
The Prime Minister has visited Australian troops in Tarin Kowt and he's told them that Australia will be there for the long haul, in his words. But can you understand Australians wondering why we should bother being there for the long haul when the death toll continues to rise, when the Afghan Government continues to fail to tackle the corruption problems and the President, Hamid Karzai's been returned in an election considered to be fraudulent?
STEPHEN SMITH: We have made the point, I made it both before and after the Afghanistan election that whoever emerged from the election process and it is President Karzai having been re-elected, Australia and the international community would look to the new government to make substantial progress on corruption, on anti-narcotics and also taking responsibility for security matters themselves. I've made those points repeatedly. I've made them directly to Afghanistan Foreign Minister Spanta in New York recently at the General Assembly.
And the Prime Minister made those points as well when he spoke by phone to President Karzai yesterday.
Australia is in Afghanistan because it's in our national interest to be there. The Afghanistan/Pakistan border area is the current hotbed of international terrorism and Australians have been on the receiving end of terrorist attacks. And just as our casualties in Afghanistan in the field are terrible and tragic, so are those attacks where Australian lives have also been lost. So that's why we're there. We're there as part of a United Nations-mandated International Security Assistance Force and it's in our national interest to be there.
It's tough, it's difficult, and it's dangerous but we continue to apply ourselves to that task. It's part of an international effort and it's one where, as the Prime Minister has said, we want to leave the Afghan nation in the position to manage these matters themselves. That's why we're investing considerable effort into training the Afghan army and the police force, so that they can take care of these responsibilities themselves.
We don't want to be there forever, but there is an important job to be done and we share that responsibility with other countries in the International Security Assistance Force, under that United Nations mandate.
DAVID SPEERS: Well, if we are there to tackle this problem of terrorism, as you say, and you are serious about achieving that aim, it is according to the US Commander there, General Stanley McCrystal, going to take more troops. Now if the US President, Barack Obama decides to send in more American troops, will Australia also at least consider doing the same?
STEPHEN SMITH: No. Firstly, we certainly have not received any request from the United States or from the International Security Assistance Force to increase the combat contribution that we have made.
It's important to remember that just a few months ago we increased that contribution from 1100 to 1550. We are in the top ten contributors overall. We are the largest non-NATO contributor. So we make a substantial contribution. We haven't received a request to make a further additional contribution and we are not anticipating one. And that's because we regard our contribution as appropriate and I think that the United States and the NATO nations recognise the substantial contribution that we make.
We do continue to give consideration to what more we may be able to do on the civilian reconstruction side, development assistance and capacity building. It's very important that we try and build the Afghan nation's institutions. So we're looking at what more we can do on that front, but we are neither entertaining nor proposing to increase our combat or military contribution to Afghanistan in Oruzgan Province, where we share that responsibility currently with the Dutch.
DAVID SPEERS: All right. Foreign Minister Stephen Smith, thank you.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks David.
ENDS
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