Transcript E&OE
3 November 2009
Interview - Jim Middleton, Newshour
Subject: Fiji
JIM MIDDLETON: The decision of Fiji's military regime to expel the High Commissioners of Australia and New Zealand has again dashed hopes that quiet diplomacy might bring an end to the Pacific Island nation's isolation. Interim Prime Minister, Frank Bainimarama announced the expulsions in response to warings from Canberra and Wellington that Sri Lankan judges being imported into Fiji would be subject to to travel bans. Australia and New Zealand are now threatening to retaliate.
Stephen Smith is Australia's Foreign Minister. Foreign Minister thanks very much for your time.
STEPHEN SMITH: Pleasure Jim.
JIM MIDDLETON: This is a serious slap in the face to Australia, is it not? Can you let it pass without retaliation?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well firstly it's very disappointing. It's essential that we remain in dialogue with Fiji despite Fiji's suspension from the Pacific Islands Forum and the Commonwealth. I made the point to Commodore Bainaimarama when I saw him in New York at the General Assembly, that once the dust had settled on those matters, then, we should try and find a way to have a dialogue to bring Fiji back to democracy, back into the international community. It is deeply disappointing but we do have to contemplate a proportionate response. I will get formal advice from Fiji tomorrow and tomorrow I'll give a formal response but regrettably I think the starting point has to be that to send the message of opprobrium - not just from Australia but from the international community - we're contemplating a proportionate response to Fiji's expulsion of our High Commissioner.
JIM MIDDLETON: Is there any point, for example in Australia now having diplomatic representation in Fiji. Will you consider the possibility of withdrawing the rest or perhaps more of Australia's diplomatic staff in Suva?
STEPHEN SMITH: No we continue to want to have diplomatic relations with Fiji, we continue to want to be able to have discussions. I must say that in the last month or so, I'd indicated to Fiji that we would upgrade the status of its Acting High Commissioner in Canberra to full High Commissioner status. That was very much welcomed by Fiji including Commodore Bainaimarama. So this is substantital...
JIM MIDDLETON: ...So you might now reverse that decisison? Is that a possibility?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, I'll announce tomorrow what our response will be but people should proceed on the basis that I'm giving consideration to what would be regarded as a proportionate response to our High Commissioner in Fiji being shown the door by Commodore Bainimarama. But I certainly don't want to close our High Commission in Fiji and so we will continue to have a presence there unless of course, Fiji determines that our presence should be completely forbidden or completely excluded.
It's disappointing but there does have to be a response. It won't surprise you to know that I have been in close consultation with my New Zealand counterpart, Foreign Minister McCully and I wouldn't be surprised if New Zealand indicated its formal response tomorrow as well.
JIM MIDDLETON: Commodore Bainimarama says that one of the reasons behind the explusions, not the only reason, but one of them, is that Australia is undermining Fiji's economy but that's got to be the impact and intention of Australia's sanctions, has it not, otherwise, why have them?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well if that was our intention, then we would have general economic or trade sanctions - we don't. We've always made the point that our sanctions are aimed against members of the regime, in particular travel sanctions and we don't want to go down the road of hurting the ordinary Fijian person which is why we've continued for example to render humanitarian assistance in the face of natural disasters. It's why we have been very targeted and selective about our sanctions. The cause of this reaction by Fiji was Australia and New Zealand indicating to Fiji that following the abrogation of the Constitution ealier this year, that judges who were appointed as judges of Fiji would be subject to the same travel sanctions as were members of the regime. And that was done for a very good reason: when the Constitution was abrogated, judicial commissions were withdrawn, some were reinstated, but reinstated effectively at the whim of the military dictator, Commodore Bainimarama. And so we indicated to Fiji we would propose to treat those judicial appointments on the same basis as other members of the regime. That is at its heart the cause of this issue but that is far from an undermining of Fiji's economy. On the contrary, the facts show that since Fiji moved to a military dictatorship, its economic and social circumstances have deteriorated significantly and we remain very worried about the capacity of Fiji to respond in any positive economic sense, both as a consequence of the intervention by the military regime but also the adverse consequences of the Global Financial Crisis which we believe will leave Fiji in a very difficult economic and social circumstance.
JIM MIDDLETON: This standoff between Fiji and Australia and New Zealand in particular, but the Commonwealth and much of the Pacific as well has now been going on for quite some time without any sign of improvement or resolution. What point is there in this stand now given that all it enables, or appears to enable Commodore Bainimarama to do, is to blame Australia and New Zealand for the country's woes, for its economic plight?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well he might argue that but I don't believe he can in any way he can argue it successfully.
JIM MIDDLETON: But you are a useful whipping boy, or Australia is a useful whipping boy for him is it not?
STEPHEN SMITH: He may try and make those points but on my experience and my observation I don't believe that view is shared by the Fijian people. But there's another point to be made as well: this is not just Australia or New Zealand. Fiji has been suspended from the Pacific Island Forum, and that was done unanimously. It's been suspended from the Forums of the Commonwealth and that was done unanimously by the Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group and there are a very small number of countries who have been suspended from the Commonwealth. So this is action taken by Fiji and Commodore Bainimarama's regime which has got the opprobrium of the regional community - the Pacific Islands Forum - and the international community through the Commonwealth and also elsewhere with condemnatory statements from the United Nations, and condemnatory action from the Eurpoean Union.
So this is the international community sending Fiji a message. And given what Fiji has indicated its proposing to do so far as Australia's High Commissioner and New Zealand's Deputy High Commissioner is concerned, Australia's response and New Zealand's response also carries with it a message from the international community which is Fiji has to return to democracy, Commodore Bainimarama does not have a license to run a military regime for as long as he sees or feels fit. And that's why Australia, New Zealand, the Pacific Islands Forum, the Commonwealth, the European Union and the United Nations have all consistently sent a message of opprobrium to Fiji.
At the same time, we do want, somehow, to try and bring Fiji back into a dialogue. But as I've experienced myself personally, it's very hard to have a dialogue with a person who doesn't want to speak to you and that's the current problem. But we will again get over this difficulty, there will be a response from Australia, there will be a response from New Zealand but at some point in the cycle, Fiji has to stop becoming even more and more isolationist, has to engage in a conversation with Australia and New Zealand and the Pacific Islands Forum and the Commonwealth and that onus is comprehensively now on Commodore Bainimarama and I regret very much what's occurring because we believe that progress was being made quietly, behind the scenes on these fronts but that's now effectively been torn up in our faces and it is not just gravely concerning, it's very disappointing.
JIM MIDDLETON: Before we wrap this up, to return to an earlier point, your department has denied claims from Fiji and indeed from the Chief Justice that Austalia would have denied transit visas to those Sri Lankan judges to get to Fiji but why would not those same judges have regarded the suggestion that they would be subject to travel bans given to them by the High Commissioner in Columbo, why would they not have regarded that as being an attempt to heavy them to not going to Fiji?
STEPHEN SMITH: What Australian officials did was to advise Sri Lankan judges that if they accepted a commission as a judge in Fiji they would be subjected to our travel bans. They had made an application to transit through Australia for the purposes of being appointed. They withdrew their application before a decision was been made. I'm advised that decision in the normal course of events would have been a favourable and positive one but they withdrew their application and travelled or proposed to travel through Korea. So the question of the issuing of a visa did not arise but when it comes to judges, whether they're Australian judges or other Commonwealth judges contemplating serving on the Fiji judiciary, then I take my cue from the current Chief Justice of Australia, his honour, Mr Justice French, who before he was appointed to the Chief Justice of the Hight Court of Australia, made the point as a Federal Court judge that it would be most unwise, for example, for an Australian judge or an Australian barrister to accept an appointment in Fiji because of the way in which Fiji's judicial independence had been trampelled upon by a military intervention. That was very good advice his honour Mr Justice French to Australian judges and I also regard that as very good advice to other judges in the Commonwealth. Our officials made it clear to those Sri Lankan judges that if they became judges in Fiji they would be subject to our travel sanctions. And that I think is the root cause of this latest action by Fiji.
JIM MIDDLETON: Foreign Minister, thank you very much.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks Jim, thanks very much.
[END]
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