Transcript E&OE
29 October, 2009
Interview - Steve Price 2UE
Subject: Asylum seekers onboard the Oceanic Viking.STEVE PRICE: Foreign Minister Stephen Smith is trying to broker a deal with the 78 asylum seekers aboard the Oceanic Viking.
He's joined us in our Canberra studio. Thanks for your time Minister.
STEPHEN SMITH: Pleasure.
STEVE PRICE: What's the deadline that the Indonesians have set for tomorrow?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well they haven't set a deadline. I've seen that report, but it's not correct. Australia's not setting a deadline or a timetable, and nor is Indonesia. That's reflected by the comments of my Indonesian counterpart, their Foreign Minister, overnight.
We're working our way…
STEVE PRICE: So where does this idea that there was a deadline from tomorrow come from?
STEPHEN SMITH: From one of the newspapers, but I don't know what that is based on.
STEVE PRICE: So there's no deadline, we just have a continuing stand-off. How are you going to resolve that?
STEPHEN SMITH: We have a continuing difficult, complex and complicated situation and we're trying to work our way calmly and sensibly and thoughtfully through that. And both Australia and Indonesia have said we need to be patient here.
This started as a search and rescue mission at sea. We want it to finish as a successful mission, and the agreement between Australia and Indonesia is that the people will come off the boat and be assessed by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in Indonesia.
STEVE PRICE: But if they refuse?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well we're taking it step by step. Our preference has always been, and our desire has always been for the people onboard the boat, in a peaceful and peaceable way, calmly and with civility and dignity to come off the boat and that will then start their processing.
STEVE PRICE: But the negotiations with them are not working are they?
STEPHEN SMITH: The negotiations are occurring on the boat. That's very much an operational matter with the customs and border protection people onboard, and they're doing their work professionally and calmly, that's how we want to move to a successful conclusion, a successful outcome.
STEVE PRICE: Well how come so long?
STEPHEN SMITH: These things always take time. The history of these matters is they are difficult, they are complicated, and they take time. This particular case is, in very many respects a special case, special circumstances, and potentially unique. This is not an asylum seeker boat being interdicted in Indonesian waters. They were in the Indonesian search and rescue area. There was a request of Australia to rescue them in the high seas because Indonesia did not have any vessels in the area. We did that.
We then had a conversation with Indonesia about where they should go. They, there was no…
STEVE PRICE: But when the Armidale picked them up, did it pick them up on the understanding that we were picking them up on an Indonesia's behalf?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, it was at Indonesia's request, but it was discharging our humanitarian…
STEVE PRICE: But didn't the emergency call come from to Australia?
STEPHEN SMITH: The emergency call came to Australia, to our…
STEVE PRICE: So Australia responded to a call to Australia. Isn't that then our problem?
STEPHEN SMITH: No. What happened, it's very important to understand this fact, a call, or more than one call came to Australia's Maritime Rescue Authority. Because it was in the Indonesian search and rescue area that was relayed to the Indonesian authorities their search and rescue authority.
They then said to us, we don't have any assets in the area, can you help? We checked to see whether there were any commercial vehicles - sorry, commercial vessels in the area. There weren't. So the closest vessel to help was the HMAS Armidale. And we did the sensible, the correct, and the decent and the right thing - we rescued them.
STEVE PRICE: Did we put any restrictions on our agreement to do that?
STEPHEN SMITH: No, we discharged our obligation to rescue them.
STEVE PRICE: So aren't they then our - aren't they then our responsibility?
STEPHEN SMITH: No. We then had a conversation with Indonesia about where they should go. There's no compulsion on the part of Australia to take them. No compulsion on the part of Indonesia to take them. So we then had a conversation with Indonesia. Initially with the relevant agencies, and subsequently, as you would have seen, between the Prime Minister and President Yudhoyono. And the agreement between Australia and Indonesia was they would go to Indonesia where they would be processed by the UNHCR.
STEVE PRICE: On that, why is the Prime Minister and yourself so reluctant to tell us what that agreement between the two leaders was?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well there's no reluctance. The agreement was made at a meeting between the Prime Minister and the President that they had in Indonesia.
STEVE PRICE: What did they agree to?
STEPHEN SMITH: They agreed that in this case, on this instance, the special circumstances of this case for humanitarian and search and sea and rescue obligations, the boat - the Oceanic Viking - would come to Indonesia where the people would be offloaded and assessed there by the international agencies. The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and also the International Organisation for Migration which assists in these matters.
STEVE PRICE: So who took the decision to transfer them from the Armidale to the Oceanic Viking?
STEPHEN SMITH: That was done by Australian authorities because it was the sensible and safe thing to do. The Oceanic Viking is a much larger vessel than, than the HMAS Armidale.
STEVE PRICE: Couldn't the Armidale have just taken them to Indonesia as agreed by the leaders?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well no, let's just go back and carefully listen to the facts.
The Armidale picked them up because it was the closest boat in the area. I understand this was an operational decision made by Defence and our search and rescue and maritime authorities and customs and border patrol. The Armidale is not suitable, as I understand it, for such a large number of people. The Oceanic Viking which is a larger vessel was in the area. It's also a customs and border patrol area so an agreement was made operationally. I had no role in that as a Minister. The agreement was made operationally to transfer. The transfer was…
STEVE PRICE: But isn't the Oceanic not big enough to cope with these numbers anyway?
STEPHEN SMITH: I've actually been on the Oceanic Viking. The Oceanic Viking is a large vessel, and my advice is that the people onboard are being well looked after. Food and water is being supplied, and they are well catered for.
STEVE PRICE: That's the history of it. The government's now got to find a solution because you are looking like you can't manage this properly.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, how we're managing it and how we're working towards…
STEVE PRICE: Well it doesn't seem to be managed at all. We have 78 people who for 12 days now - 10, 11 days now have been sitting there in limbo.
STEPHEN SMITH: Yes, and we are working closely in cooperation…
STEVE PRICE: And they won't get off. They won't go to Indonesia. They say they will only come to Australia. Does that not only leave you the only option to tell that Oceanic Viking to go to Christmas Island?
STEPHEN SMITH: No, because we're working closely in cooperation with the Indonesian authorities…
STEVE PRICE: But it's not working…
STEPHEN SMITH: Also working closely with the people onboard the boat to, in a peaceful way, have them disembark the boat so that they can be processed.
STEVE PRICE: Okay. Were you misquoted yesterday when you, when it was suggested that you hadn't ruled out the use of force?
STEPHEN SMITH: What I have said consistently is our starting point, our preference is for this matter to be resolved in a civilised and dignified and peaceful and peaceable way.
But this is very much an operational matter. This is not the sort of thing where…
STEVE PRICE: That's not quite what I asked you. Have you ruled out force?
STEPHEN SMITH: No. Well if you let me finish then you would hear the answer. This is not something where…
STEVE PRICE: Well I'm confused.
STEPHEN SMITH:…this is not something where a Member of Parliament or a Minister should be shouting instructions from Canberra.
Questions as to how the people are persuaded to go off the boat is an operational matter that we are leaving in the hands of the professionals onboard the boat.
We're taking this step by step. We're not moving beyond our starting point being that this is something which we want to see resolved peacefully and peaceably.
There are standard procedures…
STEVE PRICE: What if it can't be?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, we'll take it step by step. We're not getting beyond ourselves.
STEVE PRICE: If need be, you will make those people get off that boat in Indonesia will you?
STEPHEN SMITH: We're taking this step by step. There are standard operating procedures…
STEVE PRICE: But that's a simple question. If they won't get off, what will you do?
STEPHEN SMITH: The simple answer is we're taking it step by step. We're working very closely with the Indonesians. We're talking through our professionals onboard the boat with the asylum seekers onboard the boat, and we remain very much fixed on our commitment to have them off the boat in a calm, sensible and peaceable way.
STEVE PRICE: How long are you prepared to wait?
STEPHEN SMITH: We're not setting a timetable or a deadline. It is exactly the same response that my Indonesian counterpart has made overnight, which is we're being patient about this. We're not setting a timetable. We're not setting a deadline. We want this to finish as a successful rescue at sea operation and we're prepared to be patient about that.
STEVE PRICE: Is there any circumstance where you would allow that 78 to come to Australia?
STEPHEN SMITH: I've said in the past, we don't have that in contemplation. We have an agreement with Indonesia…
STEVE PRICE: Well if they won't get off you might have to have it in contemplation.
STEPHEN SMITH: As I say, we're taking it step by step. We have an agreement with Indonesia that they be taken to an Indonesian port and they be processed there by the
UNHCR. And that's what we're seeking to do, in conjunction with the Indonesians, in a calm and sensible and methodical way.
We'd like to see them off the boat sooner rather than later. That's clear. We'd like these matters to be resolved earlier than they have been. But these things always take time. They are always difficult and complex. And the experience in the past is the calmer and patient, and the more patient you are about it, the more chance you have of a successful outcome.
STEVE PRICE: A reporter I spoke to who went to the boat yesterday said that he spoke with an Indonesian interpreter - some of the Sri Lankans onboard said that if they are forced to get off the Oceanic Viking they will harm themselves. Have you heard those reports?
STEPHEN SMITH: I've seen those reports, and I have also seen the advice from the people onboard, which is they are working very closely with the 78 Sri Lankans onboard. They are being very careful and attentive to those issues. They are making sure that all the sensible and usual precautions are taken in the case of anyone who might contemplate self-harm.
So I'm absolutely satisfied that all of the professional steps that can be taken to avoid or minimise such self-harm efforts are in place. And the calmer you are, the more patient you are, the more measured and sensible you are, then obviously the less chance you have of those things occurring.
The experience in the past, the regrettable experience in the past is that when you seek to force these issues then you do see potentially bad examples of self-harm and bad outcomes. That's what we're trying to avoid and are prepared to be, as our Indonesian colleagues are, patient about that.
STEVE PRICE: Have you tried to convince the Sri Lankans to allow the women and children to get off?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well that's again a matter for our people on the boat to talk through.
STEVE PRICE: They must be telling you these things?
STEPHEN SMITH: In the end it's an operational matter. They're on boat…
STEVE PRICE: Well you're the Minister, they must be briefing you.
STEPHEN SMITH: They're on the boat. You're not, I'm not. This is something which is
best done by our professionals on the boat, on the scene, on the site.
STEVE PRICE: Yes, but we would expect you to know exactly what's happening. Have they asked women and children whether they would like to get off?
STEPHEN SMITH: They are in discussions with the Sri Lankan group seeking to persuade them, as a group, to go off the boat in a peaceful and peaceable way. Those discussions are ongoing.
STEVE PRICE: And you'll wait for as long as it takes?
STEPHEN SMITH: We'll be patient about this. We'll be measured and sensible. We want to get a positive outcome.
STEVE PRICE: So there's no deadlines. There will be no deadlines.
STEPHEN SMITH: We're not setting a deadline. We're not setting a timetable. We don't believe, and this view is shared by our Indonesian counterparts, we don't believe that the setting of a deadline or a timetable would be helpful in this matter.
STEVE PRICE: All right, appreciate your time.
STEPHEN SMITH: Okay. Thanks very much.
[END]
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