Transcript E&OE
27 October 2009
Interview with ABC2 Breakfast
Subjects: Oceanic Viking; Asylum seekers.
HEATHER EWART: The top story on ABC News Breakfast. Seventy-eight asylum seekers on board an Australian Customs boat are today expected to be handed to Indonesian authorities.
The Oceanic Viking arrived in Indonesia last night, but remains anchored 10 nautical miles off the island of Bintan.
JOE O'BRIEN: The Federal Government says Indonesian officials will process the asylum seekers while they're still on board. Meanwhile, Defence Minister, John Faulkner is currently in Indonesia for talks on the issue of people smuggling.
HEATHER EWART: And for more, Foreign Minister Stephen Smith joins us from Canberra.
Good morning, Minister.
STEPHEN SMITH: Good morning, Heather.
HEATHER EWART: Now can you give us the latest on what's happening with the Oceanic Viking?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well it's the early hours of the morning in Indonesia. It's about 4am. Inclement weather yesterday evening and last night prevented any further work between Australian and Indonesian officials to transport the asylum seekers on board from the Oceanic Viking to Indonesian territory. But subject to weather-conditions today, Indonesia time, we hope that that process starts.
HEATHER EWART: And will that process actually begin on board? How is it going to unfold?
STEPHEN SMITH: That'll be a matter for the Australian officials and Indonesian officials on board to determine. We expect there will be some preliminary processing on board. But in the end the formal processing of applications by the Sri Lankans for asylum I anticipate will be effected on Indonesian territory through the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), which is the standard process in Indonesia. But we expect there will be some preliminary processing on board, identification and the like. Again, that will be a matter for Australian and Indonesian officials to determine.
This matter started as a rescue at sea operation. We want it to conclude safely as a rescue at sea operation and leave it in the end or in the final analysis that processing to be effected by the UNHCR on Indonesian soil.
HEATHER EWART: Nevertheless, is there any suggestion that force may have to be used here and what would be the Government's attitude to that, the Australian Government's attitude to that?
STEPHEN SMITH: On the basis of the advice I've received to date, I'm confident and I'm expecting that this will be an orderly transfer of 78 people from the Oceanic Viking to the Indonesians and then for processing by Indonesia. In the end, of course, that's a matter for Australian officials on board, Indonesian officials, and also for the asylum seekers themselves. But on the basis of the information I've received, I'm expecting there will be a peaceful and an orderly transfer done safely at sea, subject of course to weather conditions which I've referred to earlier.
HEATHER EWART: So is this the so-called Indonesian solution at work?
STEPHEN SMITH: We need to very carefully remember how this matter commenced. This matter commenced with Australia being asked to assist a search and rescue on the high seas in the international search and rescue area. A boat was in distress, Indonesia didn't have any vessels in the area and Australia was asked to assist, which of course we did to discharge our humanitarian and our safety at sea obligation. There was then no obligation on Indonesia to take the asylum seekers, but they agreed to, and that's what we've been effecting over the last week or so. Ultimately, where the asylum seekers go to, how they are transported to Indonesia is a matter for Indonesia to determine. That's what our officials have been closely cooperating about.
There's a separate and more general issue which of course is asylum seekers travelling through Indonesia trying to get to Australia. We've been cooperating with Indonesia very closely in recent time. We face heightened difficulties with additional push factors, particularly from Sri Lanka. We're now working very closely with Indonesia to see what more we can do together, looking at more information and intelligence sharing, and cooperation on disrupting people smuggling activities. But also giving further assistance to Indonesia for detention and facilities for detention and for processing and settlement and re-settlement. This is a problem which our region faces and we're working closely with Indonesia just as we are, for example, with Malaysia and also Sri Lanka which are also the transit and source countries.
HEATHER EWART: But aren't you relying perhaps too much on Indonesia to get your government out of a very big bind over the asylum seeker issue?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well what we want to do is to make sure that there is an orderly processing to this. We want to stop the boats from coming. That's going to be very difficult given the push factors that we see from Afghanistan, the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area, and also now most recently from Sri Lanka. But we can only do that in conjunction with our neighbours. That's why, yes, we're working very closely with Indonesia, but we're also working closely with Malaysia, also with Sri Lanka and other countries in our region, both bilaterally, but also through the Bali Process, which is the regional institution to deal with people smuggling matters.
This is not an area where we are saying or whether there's any expectation that we are leaving Indonesia to bear the burden of this. People smugglers use Indonesian territory, abuse Indonesian territory, seeking to get people to Australia. Indonesia doesn't want to be regarded as an easy transit country and that's why it's been taking a range of measures in conjunction with Australia to stop and disrupt the people smuggling activity. In the last three or four years, they've disrupted over 80 people smuggling activities and the most recent one we've seen, a boatload of some 200 Sri Lankans now in Merak Harbour. So the Indonesian authorities have been working very hard on this and they've been working closely with us on this very difficult issue.
HEATHER EWART: Do you accept that there is confusion and dismay in some sections of your party about what the Rudd Government's policy really is here? Some refugees advocates, for example, are claiming that it's no different to Howard's Pacific Solution which was so condemned by you in Opposition.
STEPHEN SMITH: That's complete nonsense. We are working very closely with Indonesia, which is a major transit country and Indonesia is cooperating with us. This is completely unlike the so-called Pacific Solution where the Howard Government paid Nauru and Papua New Guinea through Manus Island, substantial sums of money to do processing in the Pacific, not transit countries...
HEATHER EWART: But you accepted the distinction...
STEPHEN SMITH: ...not source countries...
HEATHER EWART: The point I'm making is the distinction is becoming a little blurred perhaps for some people in the electorate and for some in your party.
STEPHEN SMITH: I just don't accept that at all. When you look at what is causing large numbers of people to move throughout the world - we've got over 40 million displaced people. Estimates are that up to a third of those may well be in our region or heading towards our region. This is a substantial regional problem.
This is a problem for Malaysia, for Indonesia, for Thailand, for Sri Lanka, and for Australia. That's why we've been working very closely together. It's qualitatively different from the approach that John Howard took which was effectively to seek to not discharge our international legal obligations and humanitarian obligations under the Refugee's Convention by having people processed in Papua New Guinea and in Nauru and in the event, 80 to 90 per cent of those people came to Australia anyway.
What we're trying to do is to make sure that we've got orderly migration systems, and that we've got border protection which keeps integrity to our borders. We know that there is always a risk of boats coming, that's why we've substantially increased border protection and customs control. But given the large numbers of people who are displaced and the large numbers of people, particularly most recently from Sri Lanka, who are endeavouring to get to either Malaysia or Indonesia and very many of them ultimately to Australia, we have to be working in close cooperation with these countries including Indonesia.
That's why we've made it clear so far as Indonesia is concerned that we want to be and are in discussions with them about what more assistance Australia can bring to the facilities in their detention centres, to assistance on processing, and to assistance on disruption of people smuggling activity. And why we are also open to increasing our assistance to the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, for their work in Indonesia, and the International Organisation for Migration for their work — the two international institutions, who throughout the world, deal with these very difficult problems in conjunction with individual countries like Indonesia.
HEATHER EWART: And just on the question of detention centres, which you just raised, is Christmas Island here to stay?
Because when some in your party first went on a tour of that facility, they were horrified about it.
STEPHEN SMITH: We went to the last election with a commitment that Christmas Island would be the processing point for asylum seekers and that will continue. The Minister for Immigration, Senator Evans, has made that absolutely clear. Processing of asylum seekers will continue to occur on Christmas Island and that was an election commitment and we're not proposing to deviate from that.
HEATHER EWART: Stephen Smith, thank you very much for your time this morning.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks Heather, thank you.
[ENDS]
Media inquiries
Foreign Minister's office (02) 6277 7500