Transcript E&OE
19 October 2009
Interview with ABC AM, Tony Eastley
Subjects: People-smuggling.
TONY EASTLEY: It's been revealed that a notorious people-smuggler is among the six Indonesian crew caught aboard a wooden cargo boat being held in western Java.
Abraham Lauhenapessy, also known as Captain Bram, is known for bringing more than 1500 asylum seekers to Australia since 1999 and he's has been a target of the Australian Federal Police for more than five years. He was released from jail in Indonesia in June after serving a two-year prison sentence. The revelations come as the Australian navy intercepted another boat, carrying 39 passengers and three crew overnight.
The Foreign Minister, Stephen Smith, joins us this morning on AM. Stephen Smith, good morning.
STEPHEN SMITH: Good morning Tony.
TONY EASTLEY: What can you tell us about this other boat, thought to be carrying asylum seekers, which was intercepted by an Australian navy?
STEPHEN SMITH: It was intercepted by the Australian navy yesterday afternoon. It has got over 30 people on board. That has now been taken to Christmas Island for processing in accordance with the usual way, in accordance with the usual procedures.
There is of course a second boat which was in the Indonesian search and rescue area where the Australian navy was asked to render assistance. HMAS Armidale made contact with the boat which was in distress yesterday afternoon. As a consequence of the boat being in distress, those people have now been placed on board the ACV Oceanic Viking which was in the area. We are now in consultation with the Indonesian search and rescue authorities as to the safest place to take those people.
So there have been two boats in the last 24 hours where Australian facilities or assets have rendered assistance. One has been taken to Christmas Island because it was in Australian waters. The other we are in consultation with the Indonesian search and rescue authority because it was within the Indonesian search and rescue area.
TONY EASTLEY: Because an Australian ship picked it up, may we be responsible for them though?
STEPHEN SMITH: It was in the Indonesian search and rescue area. We were asked by the Indonesian authorities to render assistance. HMAS Armidale made contact with the boat. As a consequence of that contact and as a consequence of discussions with the Indonesian search and rescue authorities because there was a concern that people were at risk, they were placed on board ACV Ocean Viking.
TONY EASTLEY: So you are confident they will go to Indonesia eventually?
STEPHEN SMITH: We are now in discussions with the Indonesian search and rescue authority as to the safest place to take those people.
TONY EASTLEY: OK.
STEPHEN SMITH: In this instance of course, safety is the paramount concern and so we will take it step by step. The key thing is to make sure they are safely ported and we are doing that in consultation with Indonesian authorities.
TONY EASTLEY: Minister, our correspondent Geoff Thompson spoke overnight to "Alex" the man delegated as spokesman for the Sri Lankan asylum seekers on board that boat in Merak in western Java. Alex says a people-smuggling kingpin, a fellow called Captain Bram or Abraham Lauhenapessy as he is known on board. Alex says the boat was only five hours from Christmas island when the skipper, reportedly a well known people smuggler as he is alleging - turned around because a planned rendezvous had not come off.
Here's a little of what Alex told our correspondent.
ALEX: We were only five hours away and that is why people are so upset and so depressed right now because we were so close to freedom. We were so close to seeking our asylum. We were so close to reaching Christmas Island.
GEOFF THOMPSON: But you were turned around because a known people-smuggler was on the boat who could face up to 20 years' jail in Australia.
ALEX: Yes, that is correct. That is correct and everybody was aware of that and that is why the crew on the boat that did train some of the members, some passengers on the boat who can finish the complete route when they were supposed to board off the ship.
TONY EASTLEY: Sorry about that scratchy phone line but Minister, is it your understanding that this known people-smuggler is on the boat and has been detained by Indonesian authorities?
STEPHEN SMITH: Firstly I can't comment on any of the alleged facts by Alex, the spokesperson as to the turning around of the boat and the like. What I can confirm and what my most recent advice is, is that Abraham or Captain Bram as he is known, has been taken into custody by Indonesian authorities.
I am advised that he was on the boat. He is now in their custody. He is of course someone who has previously been convicted of people smuggling offences. He is well known to Australian and to Indonesian authorities so he is now in the custody of the Indonesian authorities and it will be a matter for the Indonesian authorities to now progress that matter. But yes, he is in their custody.
TONY EASTLEY: If I could beg your indulgence again, here is a little of what Alex says is a problem that is going to eventuate because he claims Lauhenapessy will bribe his way out of trouble and prosecution.
ALEX: He kept telling us that he won't face any time in Indonesia. That he will be released after a few months. The agents will bribe the Indonesian Government and get him out of jail as soon as possible.
GEOFF THOMPSON: How do you feel about that?
ALEX: Well, it makes us very angry that he would be freed very soon and we know that the Indonesian Government can free him and they might take the bribery from our ticket.
TONY EASTLEY: Asylum seeker and spokesman Alex.
Stephen Smith the Foreign Minister is with us on AM live. Stephen Smith, do you expect that this man - the alleged kingpin who skippered this boat toward Christmas Island will cop the full extent of the law and be prosecuted in Indonesia?
STEPHEN SMITH: I think it is very important in all of these circumstances, whether it is a boat that has picked up or people have been arrested or detained, to take things step by step.
I think that is a much better approach than making assertions which may or may not be based on fact. He has been taken into custody. What we do know is that we have been closely cooperating with the Indonesian authorities for some period.
TONY EASTLEY: And if I could break in, you are on your way to Indonesia today Minister. Will you be pushing the case fairly hard?
STEPHEN SMITH: Yes, I am accompanying the Prime Minister. We, of course, are both going to President Yudhoyono's inauguration.
I will, of course, be meeting with my counterpart, Foreign Minister Hassan Wirajuda. In the normal course of events, we would be speaking about all these matters.
I saw Foreign Minister Wirajuda in New York. We spoke about these matters. The last three or four conversations I have had, I have spoken about these matters with him because the point I was about to make, the Indonesian authorities have detained Captain Bram.
We have been working closely with them. The Indonesian authorities know all too well that this is a big regional problem, not just for Indonesia and Australia but our other partners in the region including Malaysia. That is why we are working closely with them and that is why they have been working actively including disrupting people-smuggling endeavours and detaining or arresting people like Captain Bram.
TONY EASTLEY: He got a $3,000 fine and two years jail last time. You'd expect a bit more than that this time round?
STEPHEN SMITH: Precisely the point I have been making Tony. He has been detained. Let's now leave that to the Indonesian judicial and legal processes to take their course. Let's not leap to any conclusions. What we do know is that the Indonesian authorities know that they have a problem.
We've got 40 million displaced people throughout the world moving across the globe. About a third of those are estimated to be in or moving around or towards our region. So that is why we are working very closely with the Indonesians at every level to try and make sure that there is integrity in our own processes.
We have beefed up our border protection arrangements as you know. But the push factors from Afghanistan, the Afghanistan/Pakistan border area and most recently from the civil disruption in Sri Lanka, are seeing large numbers of people coming our way. We are working very closely in the region to take every step we can to bring integrity to the system and at the same time, to discharge our obligations under the international humanitarian conventions and the refugee convention.
TONY EASTLEY: Foreign Minister, Stephen Smith, thanks for joining us this morning on AM.
[ENDS]
Media inquiries
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