Transcript E&OE
14 October 2009
Interview with Jim Middleton, ABC
Subjects: Pakistan; Afghanistan; Commonwealth Games.
JIM MIDDLETON: Seen as a destination of choice for Australian sports and investments, a procession of Australian Ministers has made the trek to India this year. Prime Minister Kevin Rudd will be there next month. Foreign Minister Stephen Smith is in New Delhi at the moment - I spoke to him immediately after talks with his Indian counterpart, S M Krishna, where terrorism was prominent on the agenda.
Foreign Minister, thanks for your time.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thank you, Jim.
JIM MIDDLETON: You've just come from a meeting with your Indian counterpart. How seriously did you discuss the problems and the worsening situation, security situation, across the border in Pakistan?
STEPHEN SMITH: We covered the array of interests between Australia and India - bilateral, regional, and international. So, yes, we touched upon some of the difficult security issues in South Asia including Afghanistan, also including Pakistan, and I welcome the fact that recently, both External Affairs Minister Krishna and our Pakistani colleague, Foreign Minister Qureshi, have spoken generally but also about these matters.
So, yes, security issues in the region were one of the things that we covered.
JIM MIDDLETON: Some months ago you expressed your fears about the precarious circumstances of the state of Pakistan. You must be even more worried now, given the ability of the Taliban to launch one attack after another, even against military bases.
STEPHEN SMITH: Whilst on the one hand we're seeing the Taliban and extremists be very audacious in Pakistan, I think it is true that the Pakistan state, the Pakistan Government, the Pakistan army, have been making progress. I think the essential point was for those institutions in Pakistan to appreciate that what was occurring was not just a problem, for example, on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area, but also a threat to Pakistan's very existence.
Now, there's no doubt in my mind that that is now genuinely appreciated by Pakistan and in recent months we've seen Pakistan, the nation state, the Parliament, the Government, the army respond. That's not to say that there's not a lot more to do and we certainly stand shoulder to shoulder with Pakistan at a difficult time, but I've been pleased with the response of Pakistan. But of course we continue, as does the international community - best reflected by the leaders’ meeting of the Friends of a Democratic Pakistan in New York in the margins of the General Assembly a couple of weeks ago - the international community continues to be concerned about Pakistan, that we want to assist both its security efforts and its economic and social efforts.
JIM MIDDLETON: Turning to Afghanistan directly, just how troubled are you about the consequences of the Australian army making serious mistakes in its account of the shooting of two Afghan police officers back in August?
STEPHEN SMITH: I'd certainly be concerned if the original assessment, once it was shown to be incorrect, was continued to be articulated. I think everyone has welcomed the remarks of the Chief of the Defence Forces overnight, that there's an acceptance that the Afghan soldiers involved were in uniform, that an exhaustive investigation will be conducted by the Australian Defence Force as a consequence, and that no stone will be left unturned to accept responsibility as appropriate.
I mean, we pride ourselves on, for example, minimising risk to civilians, not making these sorts of mistakes, but we made it clear in the past that when these mistakes are made we accept responsibility for them and that responsibility's also been accepted not just on this occasion but on a regular, ongoing basis by the defence establishment, starting with the Chief of the Defence Forces and he's done that overnight and that's a good thing.
JIM MIDDLETON: But the father of the dead man says the result of the killing by the Australian forces is that he has now ceased to be a friend of the Australians and he will switch sides to join the Taliban. That's a terrible outcome for trying to win the hearts and minds, isn't it?
STEPHEN SMITH: It's a tragic and terrible outcome for the individual concerned and for the family involved. We don't shy away from that and in the face of tragedy different individuals, different families, will respond in different ways. But I think, to be fair to Australian Defence Force personnel and to be fair to the Australian Defence Forces, this is not a regular or a recurring incident or example, so far as Australian Defence Forces in Afghanistan or generally are concerned.
JIM MIDDLETON: To the recent election in Afghanistan now, Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, who is the Chief of the Australian Defence Force, says he's disappointed at the level of fraud and thinks there may well have to be a runoff election. Do you think there will be a runoff?
STEPHEN SMITH: In the first instance, that's a matter for the Afghan Election Commission and the Afghan Election Complaints Commission.
We've been respecting the request of Kai Eide, the UN Special Representative, to not form a conclusive view or a conclusive judgment until those processes have taken their course.
Now, I have, of course, expressed my own concern at allegations of fraud and evidence of fraud. I've also made it clear that whatever the outcome of the election, whether it's a second round runoff, whether it's a re-elected Karzai Government, whether it's a Government of National Unity or inclusion with, for example, Presidential candidate Abdullah Abdullah taking part in a government, whatever the outcome which will follow those Afghan election processes, the new Afghan government has to make much greater progress on corruption and governance issues, on anti-narcotics, on the treatment of its people so far as human rights are concerned, particularly women, so it's the chance for a new Afghan government to make a fresh start, irrespective of how it is made up, irrespective of what the ultimate verdict of the Afghan election processes are.
JIM MIDDLETON: One final question, returning to Delhi, where you are now, the Commonwealth Games is due to start there a year from now. Have you been able to satisfy yourself that the security arrangements will be sufficient to ensure the safety of the athletes?
STEPHEN SMITH: I've certainly satisfied myself that the required planning is underway. I had a good conversation with External Affairs Minister Krishna about the Games and about security arrangements.
Of course we want the Games to be a success and we're confident they are. That'll be a great thing for India, and a great thing for the Commonwealth, and a great thing for Australia because we'll be sending our largest ever overseas sporting team to the Games in Delhi next year.
We are also being consulted regularly on security arrangements.
I've also made the point to my Indian colleagues that we, of course, have just come through the Melbourne Commonwealth Games, we've got plenty of experience in terms of security and other arrangements that we can share, and External Affairs Minister Krishna made it clear that India is very happy to receive the benefit of that accumulated wisdom, just as we received the benefit of those people who have conducted Commonwealth Games before us. So certainly the planning is underway, certainly the consultation is there, it's just a regrettable fact of life that these days when we're planning these big events we have to give very serious thought and attention to what might be the actions of extremists and terrorists who want to stop these things from occurring in a peaceful and harmonious way.
JIM MIDDLETON: Minister, thanks again for your time.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks, Jim, thanks very much.
[END]
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