Transcript
29 September 2009
Interview - ABC Radio National with Fran Kelly
Subjects: Afghanistan, Iranian missile tests and nuclear weapons.
FRAN KELLY: Can we start with Iran -another nuclear site revealed and its longest ever missile test. You're fresh from meetings with the US Defence Secretary Robert Gates and the President's National Security Adviser, General Jim Jones.
How alarmed is Washington?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, I think the Administration shares the same concerns that Australia does, and the bulk of the international community. The missile tests of course are provocative and inflammatory. The revelation by Iran of a second enrichment site is of course very concerning, but it does underline, reinforce and confirm the long-held view that Iran is not being upfront with the international community, that it is progressing towards nuclearisation, and it does need to be held to account.
And that's why, in this context, the so-called P5 - the Permanent Five Plus One - talks with Iran on Thursday of this week, are very important. And our own judgement is we should focus on that dialogue, and not be distracted by the missile tests. I suspect frankly that Iran's intention was to cause consternation, and for it to be provocative.
FRAN KELLY: Well I guess it has caused some consternation. What is the US expecting from the talks on Thursday, what's the approach?
STEPHEN SMITH: Australia has strongly supported, for example, United Nations Security Council resolutions to seek to bring Iran to account. We've strongly supported the overtures by the Obama Administration, of dialogue, and we strongly believe that the Permanent Five, plus Germany, is the vehicle to progress this through and on behalf of the international community.
We've been trying to get these talks for a long time, so the fact that Iran has agreed to the talks, is of itself a good step. Time will tell whether the talk or the dialogue leads to anything.
We do believe, as the disclosure of the Qom facility reinforces, that there is real concern with Iran's nuclear program. We're worried of course about enrichment, and in the longer term any weapons capacity, but it does require a change of approach from Iran, a change of policy, a change of attitude, and entering into the dialogue of itself won't be enough. But you can do a lot just by turning up, and you can do a lot just by starting a dialogue, but time will tell whether it's effective.
FRAN KELLY: Well earlier this morning on Breakfast we spoke to David Albright, former weapons inspector, and he said that basically unless Iran decides to make a strategic decision to change course, it should face a period of isolation, sanctions and military containment. What's your view? And is that the sort of talk you're hearing?
STEPHEN SMITH: I will leave him to use his own form of words - the form of words that I use are: it will require a change of approach, a change of attitude, a change of policy on Iran's behalf. That's the first point. Secondly, Australia has also made it clear to the United States and other members of the international community, including for example the United Kingdom and the European Union, that if dialogue is not successful, then further sanctions will need to be contemplated.
In Australia's case, not only have we fully implemented the United Nations Security Council resolutions in respect of the sanctions, we've also gone further and together with other countries taken autonomous sanctions to try and put more pressure on Iran.
And I made it clear today to the US Administration that Australia would again contemplate not just supporting the United Nations Security Council resolutions but would again contemplate further autonomous sanctions if the efforts of dialogue are not successful, because in very many respects this could be one of the most difficult international security issues that we have to deal with in the course of next year and perhaps the year after.
FRAN KELLY: What about the ultimate threat of military action to force Iran to abandon its nuclear program. Was that raised? Is that on the drawing board?
STEPHEN SMITH: It's a matter for the US Administration to articulate its own views, but I think its only fair to say a strong starting point of the Obama Administration is that we have started this with a dialogue and that's why its been making the overtures.
We've welcomed the general overtures by the Obama Administration for a conversation with Iran about these and other matters. So it has to start with a dialogue and so we are not contemplating or looking beyond that, certainly.
FRAN KELLY: Has that been talked out at all, though, behind closed doors as the follow up to a dialogue if it's not successful?
STEPHEN SMITH: It's no secret that the possibility of some nation states taking military action to seek to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear capacity, a nuclear weapon's capacity, has been mentioned in not just the course of recent days and weeks. But our very strong starting point is that we have to start with a dialogue and if a dialogue is not successful then we have to look at further United Nations Security Council and other sanctions to seek to bring Iran to account.
FRAN KELLY: You are listening to Radio National Breakfast, our guest this morning is Foreign Minister, Stephen Smith. Minister, the focus of the meeting with Secretary Gates was Afghanistan and there is a real sense now that the campaign is bogged down, that the war is being lost, is that the sense you get from your talks in Washington?
STEPHEN SMITH: I wouldn't categorise it in the context of losing. What's been made very clear to me, through with my talks with Secretary Gates and National Security Adviser Jones, is that President Obama, as he made clear in advance of the Afghanistan election, wants to do a strategic review and that is now occurring.
It'll be done exhaustively, in a matter of weeks, rather than months, and that will occur across the administration, and involve consultation with NATO and other ISAF, International Security Assistance Force, which is United Nations mandated, and that includes Australia. It will include consultation with all of those countries, including Australia, and we will let our view be known, in terms of any modifications or adjustments to the strategy.
FRAN KELLY: It's pretty clear though, from General Stanley McChrystal's report and comments that he believes that there will be a real risk of failure in Afghanistan, unless more coalition forces are poured in. Did Secretary Gates flag a bigger troop commitment from Australia with you?
STEPHEN SMITH: No, I'm very happy to make clear - in respect of today's conversations, and as I've made clear in the past about other conversations - we have received no request from the United States Administration to increase our troop or combat contribution. I certainly didn't receive a request today, and as I've made clear in the past, and happy to underline, I'm not expecting or anticipating one.
Australia is not expecting or anticipating a request for an additional contribution, and that's because in recent months we have of course increased our troop contribution from about 1100 to about 1550. That increase was essentially aimed at trying to give a greater training facility for the Afghan National Army in Uruzgan Province, where we are.
So I'm certainly not expecting a request for a further contribution of military or combat troops, so far as Afghanistan is concerned.
FRAN KELLY: What about non-combat capacity?
STEPHEN SMITH: I've made it clear, we're happy to give consideration to whether there's anything more we can do on the civilian nation-building or capacity-building front, and we strongly agree with the general approach that President Obama has adopted, which is this battle against international terrorism in Afghanistan can't be won by military strategy alone.
It also has to include a nation-building, or a civil enhancement strategy, not just training the army, but training the police, training the law and justice administrators, building capacity to enable basic services like health and education to be provided, but also at some stage, it does require political rapprochement, political reconciliation and realignment amongst the political players in Afghanistan.
And I've also very strongly made the point to a range of my foreign ministerial colleagues since I've been here at the General Assembly in New York, including the Foreign Minister Spanta from Afghanistan, that whoever emerges from the Afghanistan election process, the international community is entitled to and will seek to see substantial improvements being made on anti-corruption, anti-narcotics, and respecting rights of women.
There's been a substantial ebbing of confidence in the Karzai Administration in my view, in the international community, including in Australia, over the last 18 months or so, and the international community is entitled to hold the new Afghanistan Administration, whoever that is, whether it's President Karzai or someone else, to account in requiring substantial progress to be made on these fronts.
FRAN KELLY: Meanwhile Minister, we do have Australian troops in Uruzgan Province, next year the Dutch military protective troops there in place are leaving, they're pulling out, who will take over that defence role there, to help assist protect the Australian troops on the ground, working with the restructuring, because there are calls now from the Australian Defence Association for an extra 2000 more Australian troops to go in, to support the assets we have there?
STEPHEN SMITH: As you say, we're in Uruzgan Province, the Dutch are currently leaving it, I've had discussions about this, both with my Dutch counterpart, Maxime Verhagen, but also with Secretary Gates today. It's clear that the Dutch will give up the leadership in Uruzgan Province, but what is also clear is that Australia will not take up the lead, and I've made the point to Secretary Gates that in that case, it's then necessary, either on the part of the United States, or a senior NATO country, to take up the leadership in Uruzgan Province.
Secretary Gates is all too well aware of that, and obviously that's something that will be the subject of further consideration by him and NATO and us. But we've made it very clear that we're not in the position to take up the leadership of Uruzgan Province. That will be a matter we will continue to discuss with the administration, in the run-up to the Dutch relinquishing the leadership, which will occur in October/November of next year.
FRAN KELLY: And Secretary Gates accepted that?
STEPHEN SMITH: Yes, it's very clearly understood by the US Administration that given our other commitments in our own region, we're not in the position to take up the leadership, that's understood, and we will obviously have sensible and productive discussions with the US Administration, with NATO, with International Security Assistance Force colleagues, about who should take that leadership role.
It may well be the United States, but that will be one of the issues that the United States Administration will consider, as part of resource allocation, once the strategic review has been completed by President Obama.
FRAN KELLY: Stephen Smith, thank you very much for joining us on Breakfast.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thank you, Fran, thanks very much.
FRAN KELLY: Foreign Minister, Stephen Smith, joining us there from Washington.
[END]
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