Transcript E&OE
24 September 2009
Interview - Karen Middleton SBS
Subjects: climate change, G20, North Korea, Fiji, Afghanistan.
Karen Middleton: Minister, thanks for joining us. We've heard in the last couple of days more positive noises from Japan and from China on the issue of climate change, but we still don't have any firm numerical commitment from China. How important is it to get a firm commitment in terms of numbers on emissions reduction?
Stephen Smith: Well, I think what we've seen in the last couple of days in New York at the General Assembly has been welcome progress. What was essential out of this week was to get some political momentum to build some political will for a positive outcome in Copenhagen. There will be a lot of water under the bridge before we see the final outcome of Copenhagen, and that will go to specific commitments.
But we're pleased with what we've seen from the new Japanese Prime Minister. We're pleased with the additional indications from China. And also very pleased for the first time the United States has turned up at the General Assembly and engaged in a positive conversation about climate change.
So I think this week's about political will and the detail I think will take a fair bit more time until we actually get to Copenhagen itself in December.
Karen Middleton: There was some expectation, in terms of the United States, that there would be a little more detail and perhaps a clear indication of their position, how disappointed, if at all, are you that we didn't see that yet?
Stephen Smith: I'm not disappointed, I know some people are, but I think it was very important that this week we saw the United States with the Obama Administration, engaging positively in climate change, wanting to get a good outcome in Copenhagen, and doing that at the United Nations.
It's the first time we've seen a positive constructive engagement with the United Nations from the United States for some time. And, of course, the climate change convention is a UN sponsored convention, so it's appropriate to go to the United Nations to the General Assembly and make the points the President did.
There's plenty of time for that detail to emerge and, of course, as detail comes from other countries, whether it's Japan, China, India as well, then I'm sure we'll see further detail from the United States itself.
Karen Middleton: But that's the key, isn't it? Until we see the detail from the United States, we really aren't going to get the detail from everyone else. The chicken and egg, isn't it?
Stephen Smith: There is an element of that in this process. But our own assessment is that we've seen modest but good progress this week, and there is a long way to go. But it was important to build that political will in the course of this week. Also, we hope to see some serious discussion at the G20 on aspects of climate change, particularly climate change financing. And then there will be a need to continue that funding through October and November until we get to Copenhagen itself.
Karen Middleton: Is President Obama too distracted by domestic issues or by security issues to really focus on this? Is that a problem?
Stephen Smith: I think President Obama is more than capable of dealing with more than one issue at the same time. Any American President has to do that just as the Australian Government has to do that and just as all of the other United Nations members do.
Yes, it is the most pressing international issue of our day and of our time. But there are always other issues that governments and nations have to deal with. President Obama is more than capable of doing with that, just as Australia is, just as other countries are.
Karen Middleton: Small Pacific Island states have made their presence felt here in New York over the last few days, one of those states obviously is Fiji, relations remain fraught between Australia and Fiji. I understand that Frank Bainimarama is here, have you had any contact with him this week?
Stephen Smith: Yes I ran into him at a Pacific Island Developing States reception hosted by the President of Nauru, President Stephen, I spoke to his interim Foreign Minister.
We had a civilised and cordial conversation just as our conversation in Fiji were civilised when I went there as a member of the Pacific Islands Forum Ministerial contact group.
I made the point that when the dust settled on the suspension of Fiji from the Pacific Islands Forum and the Commonwealth, we had to find some way to have a dialogue with Fiji. I also made the point that 2014 for an election was way too long for Australia and for the international community.
It's entirely appropriate to have that sort of conversation in the context of the General Assembly and the United Nations. But as all my conversations with Commodore Bainimarama have been, there are firm views to express but it was civilised and polite as it should be.
Karen Middleton: You have also had talks with the new Japanese Foreign Minister and with Hilary Clinton the Secretary of State. I understand that North Korea came up, what's you assessment of the situation with North Korea given the reports of an imminent test and what have you done about that?
Stephen Smith: I had two good conversations with the new Japanese Foreign Minister, Foreign Minister Okada.
It's the first Ministerial contact between the Australian Government and the new Japanese government. Firstly in the context of the Trilateral Strategic Dialogue between Australia, Japan and the United States, and then a separate formal bilateral meeting.
North Korea's nuclearisation and nuclear program came up and I think it's true to say that Australia, Japan and the United States continue to be very concerned about that program. We strongly believe that North Korea should comply with United Nations Security Council resolutions, and also believe that North Korea should go back to the so-called Six Party talks of which the United States and Japan are, of course, a part of. We are strongly supportive of both Japan and the United States in that respect. But North Korea's nuclearisation program continues to be a very significant concern so far as international security is concerned.
Karen Middleton: And if North Korea continues to thumb its nose at those requests, what power do the UN and the world really have to pull it into line? Is this another sign that the UN in the end can't really do anything?
Stephen Smith: I think in the case of North Korea, that's far from the case. We've seen recently, following on from North Korea's most recent underground test and ballistic missile trial, unanimous resolutions of the Security Council, Resolutions 1874 that followed on from resolution 1718. We've seen unanimous decisions so far as condemnation and sanctions are concerned.
Australia has fully implemented those sanctions but we continue as a country and as a member of the international community to want full pressure put on North Korea. We want North Korea to comply with the Security Council resolutions and the best way we think of that occurring is bringing North Korea back to the Six Party talks. I think, without putting views or words into both my Japanese and United States counterparts, I think that's the view of Japan and United States counterparts as well.
Karen Middleton: Can I ask you finally about Afghanistan. We have heard suggestions in the last few days about the need for more troops and you have said that Australia had no immediate plans, but how much pressure is going to be on Australia in the medium to longer term to increase its troop commitment?
Stephen Smith: What I have said in that respect is we have recently received a copy of General McChrystal's report and we are obviously poring over that. We will give a very careful consideration just as President Obama has said he will. We will obviously have a conversation with the United States as we will with NATO. I also met the new NATO Secretary General, Rasmunsen, and other members of the United Nations sponsored ISAF force.
We will give it very careful consideration but we recently increased our troop commitment to just over 1500. There's no request in the McChrystal review for additional troops and I'm not expecting to receive one from the United States. It's a document which goes to the heart of strategic considerations and where the strategic adjustments are needed and we think that's a sensible thing to do.
We remain of the view that success in Afghanistan can only come not just through the military contribution but also through a nation building or capacity building or training contribution. Also at some point it has to be led by the Afghanistan government, a political reconciliation with all the political players in Afghanistan. It's a three pronged approach that's required to stare down international terrorism in Afghanistan.
Karen Middleton: Well we've seen widespread reports of election fraud in the wake of the recent election in Afghanistan. Aren't we at risk of propping up a government that has lost its legitimacy?
Stephen Smith: I've made a couple of points. Firstly we're respecting the request of Kai Eide, the UN Secretary General special representative in Afghanistan to wait until the Afghan election commission and election complaints commission have completed their work. That was originally scheduled for 17 September but it's much more likely to be the end of this month, maybe later. So we will reserve our judgement until we see that work. But I've previously expressed our concern, as have other members of the international community, over allegations of fraud.
But I've also made this point, which was a point I have made before the election and after, whoever emerges, whether its President Karzai or whether its former foreign Minister Abdullah or whether its a combination of those or others, the international community and Australia will insist on seeing real progress on some of the difficult areas in Afghanistan; anti narcotics, corruption and governance and also respect for human rights, particularly respect for women.
There has been an ebbing of confidence in President Karzai in the international community over the last 18 months because of lack of progress on those fronts. So whoever emerges its absolutely essential for building confidence that real progress is made on those fronts. And if progress is not made on things like anti narcotics and corruption and respect for the rights of women, then there will be a very serious ebbing of political support in the population of those countries who are making a military contribution.
Karen Middleton: Well in terms of the political support for the forces there at the moment there are still some hesitation in European countries, we have seen a number of 6 casualties from the Italian troops in the last few days which is going to add to the pressure there. How is Australia going to persuade Europe to stay the course particularly given the Dutch are supposed to leave next year, what do we do when our partners the Dutch go and other European countries aren't prepared to stand in the breach.
Stephen Smith: think the McChrystal review also gives us the opportunity to stand back and look at some fundamentals.
We've recently seen the most recent anniversary of September the 11th that reminds us that the reason we're in Afghanistan is to stare down international terrorism. On all the evidence, the acknowledgement has been its a breeding ground or training ground or hotbed of international terrorism and that puts Australians at risk as we have seen most recently at the Jakarta Hotel bombings.
It's in our national interest to be there, it's in the international community interest to be there and that's the reason we're doing it. And that's the argument that needs to be made publicly within people's domestic constituencies.
But that argument will only be successful if people see progress. And its progress which is required not just on a military enforcement front but also on those issues I referred to on corruption and governance and respect for human rights. The rest of the world will want to see progress on those fronts before they continue to be persuaded that its worthwhile being there and that's the challenge for the new Afghanistan government once the election process is out of the way.
Karen Middleton: Minister thanks for your time.
Stephen Smith: Thank you
[ENDS]
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