Transcript
24 September 2009
Interview - Jim Middleton, ABC
Subjects: Fiji; Afghanistan; climate change.
JIM MIDDLETON: Stephen Smith, thanks for joining us. I believe you met up with Fijian Commodore Frank Bainimarama. Did he give you any indication of an election date?
STEPHEN SMITH: It was at a reception hosted by the Nauru President, President Stephen. We ran into each other and it was a civilised and courteous exchange.
I said to the interim Prime Minister that when the dust had settled on suspension of Fiji from the Pacific Islands Forum and the Commonwealth, there really had to be some effort and a dialogue to bring Fiji back effectively from isolation.
I said that 2014 was way too long so far as Australia and the international community was concerned for an election or the return for democracy.
It was a civilised and courteous exchange just as my exchanges with Commodore Bainimarama were when I met him in Fiji on two occasions as a member of the Fiji Ministerial Contact Group. Whether anything comes of it, time will tell.
I didn't detect any moving back so far as Commodore Bainimarama was concerned, but at some stage we do have to get into a dialogue with Fiji and bring them back from isolation and take them forward to democracy.
JIM MIDDLETON: Now to other issues. First Afghanistan, there seems to be considerable debate, to say the least, at the top levels of the Obama Administration about the way ahead with that conflict. How worried are you that there should be such second guessing in Washington at this stage of the conflict.
STEPHEN SMITH: I'm not worried about the careful and deliberative process that the Obama Administration is going through as it starts the consideration of General McChrystal's review. President Obama has made it quite clear that he is not going to be rushed into a decision, so far as General McChrystal's review is concerned. He will consult with NATO, with the International Security Assistance Force countries, including Australia, as he looks at whether further strategic implementation changes are required. That, to me, is a sensible process.
Of course, we continue to be very worried by that fact that Afghanistan is difficult and dangerous, and that's focussing the minds of, I think, very many people here in New York at the General Assembly, bearing in mind that the mission in Afghanistan is of course a United Nations sponsored mission.
JIM MIDDLETON: The assessment from General McChrystal, the US commander in Afghanistan, was pretty grim, with all this talk possibly of failure. That's depressing, and also dangerous though too, given that Australia is among those with considerable forces in Afghanistan.
STEPHEN SMITH: I think when you read the review, and I want to read it again very carefully, but to the extent I've gone through it, whilst it draws attention to very many serious difficulties, it doesn't say that it's a fruitless mission or a fruitless task. General McChrystal was asked to do effectively a strategic review, and that will now come under very serious consideration. I think it is important that as part of General McChrystal's review, we stand back and just remember some basics.
We have only just gone through the most recent anniversary of September the 11th, that reminds us we're in Afghanistan to stare down international terrorism. The current hotbed or breeding ground for international terrorism is the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area. That is a mission which is United Nations sponsored, not just NATO countries, but a range of others, including Australia, and no one's under any illusions just how difficult it is.
But it continues to be Australia's view, and also the view of other countries involved, that it's in the international community's interest for us to be there. And in our case, it's in Australia's interests for us to be there as the most recent Australian casualties from the bombings in the Jakarta hotel in July testify to.
JIM MIDDLETON: Who are the enemy here? My understanding is that the international community went into Afghanistan eight years ago to rout out Al Queida, Al Queida is now largely in Pakistan, why then invest all the effort in Afghanistan when it would appear that where the target is, the international terrorists, is Pakistan.
STEPHEN SMITH: I think there is a very clear appreciation, and there has been certainly for the past 18 months since the current Australian Government has been in office, that what we're dealing with is not Afghanistan per se, its Afghanistan and also the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area. And you have seen very many people now refer to the Afghanistan-Pakistan border theatre. Pakistan, of course, has separate difficulties in its own right. I don't believe there's any illusion that the border area is of both considerable importance and a difficulty to the mission in Afghanistan.
I think that we've seen in recent times through the Reidel review in the United States, and more general assessments, that there's a very clear understanding that the implications of us staying not just in Afghanistan but to the Pakistan border area and, indeed, in a separate context, to Pakistan itself, there's a very clear appreciation and understanding of that. It's also why your reference to who we're actually fighting with. It's also why Australia has a very strong view, and it's shared, I think, by the international community that it's not just a military enforcement strategy which is required in Afghanistan. There also needs to be a nation building or capacity building strategy so far as Afghanistan is concerned. Training its army, training its police force, training its civil servants for its own national institutions, or enforcement institutions, and the basic provision of services like health and education.
But there also has to be a political reconciliation, a political (inaudible). That needs to be done by the Afghanistan Government. It needs to start with the Afghanistan Government because not everyone who is currently associated with the Taliban, you would categorise as a hardcore international terrorist. They are fellow travellers with the Taliban because they see no alternative. It's the job of the Afghanistan Government to make the point that there is more than one banner to fall behind in Afghanistan, and there's a better and different way lead by the Afghanistan Government. So, it requires a three pronged approach: military, capacity building and training, but also political reconciliation, political (inaudible), political realignment.
JIM MIDDLETON: One final topic, and briefly I'm afraid and that is, of course, Climate Change, judging by the offerings made by President Obama in particular, and also Hu Jintao, it would seem that the idea of an international legally binding treaty on climate agenda, is now off the agenda, but it will be national targeting. Is that the way which Australia thinks things are going to go?
STEPHEN SMITH: I think it's a long way to Copenhagen. I think this week, particularly the last couple of days where we've seen President Obama turn up and make the point that his Administration, the US Administration, very much wants to get an agreement, a positive outcome at Copenhagen. We're seeing new initiatives announced by the new Japanese Prime Minister, we've seen additional information proposed by China.
I think what Australia wanted to see in New York this week was some political momentum building for a good outcome in Copenhagen. I think there will be a fair amount of water that goes under the bridge before we see what that agreement in Copenhagen is. But it's been very important this week to get some political momentum, and I think we're starting to see that.
In Australia's case, we have been particularly conscious of the views of the small island states from the Pacific and Caribbean, and Indian Ocean. The states who have made the least contribution to the problem that we now face, but are subject to the worst excesses of any adverse consequences. So that's one of the reasons why Australia has been working very closely, not just with the Pacific Island nation States, but also those in the Caribbean and the Indian Ocean.
We are pleased with progress, we think it's a modest step forward, but it's very important to continue to build political will and political momentum from here to Copenhagen in December.
JIM MIDDLETON: Foreign Minister, I fear my time is running out, thank you very much.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks Jim.
[ENDS]
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