Transcript
23 September 2009
Interview - Sky News with David Speers
Subjects: Balibo Five, relations with Indonesia; Afghanistan; climate change.
KIERAN GILBERT: To the United States now. SKY News Political Editor, David Speers, filed this report from New York a little earlier, including an interview with the Foreign Minister Stephen Smith.
REPORTER: While a lot of the focus here in New York today has been on climate change and the genuine progress that we have seen at the special summit, the one day summit on global warming of world leaders, there has also been a lot else going on around town.
Foreign Minister Stephen Smith has of course been here during the week. He's been meeting with his various counterparts this afternoon. He met with his Indonesian counterpart, Hassan Wirajuda.
I caught up with Stephen Smith afterwards, to talk about that meeting and also Afghanistan, after the report from the US Commander, General Stanley McChrystal, was delivered to the White House on what he believes is necessary to win that war.
Our interview with Stephen Smith.
Stephen Smith, thank you for your time. In your talks with your Indonesian counterpart, did he and you discuss Indonesia's concerns about the Australian Federal Police war crimes investigation into the Balibo Five?
STEPHEN SMITH: We didn't today but before I left Australia, in one of my regular telephone conversations with Hassan Wirajuda, we had a lengthy telephone conversation and we dealt with that matter. So...
REPORTER: So the fact he hasn't raised it today...
STEPHEN SMITH: No, neither of us raised it today.
REPORTER: Does that mean it's no longer a great concern for Indonesia?
STEPHEN SMITH: It means that we continue to both share the view that this is an issue that needs to be managed carefully and sensitively.
When I did have my conversation with him, my telephone conversation with him, I made the point that when it comes to an investigation, it's of course an independent decision by the Federal Police, just as the decision by the New South Wales Deputy Coroner was an independent decision, which has effectively triggered this process.
REPORTER: On Afghanistan, Minister, the US Commander, General Stanley McChrystal, has finished his report. It's being considered by the United States, and also by the Australian Government as well. He says, essentially, that without more troops there's a likelihood of failure in Afghanistan.
Can I ask you what do you think has gone wrong in this war?
STEPHEN SMITH: It's a difficult and dangerous exercise, and we are faced with very dedicated and committed international terrorists - the problem is of course why we're there.
But I wouldn't get too far ahead of ourselves on General McChrystal's review. President Obama has made it very clear that he's not going to be rushed. He wants to give consideration to what strategic modifications, if any, need to be made to the effort in Afghanistan, and he'll do that within his own administration and then in conjunction with NATO countries and other International Security Assistance Force member countries like Australia.
In the meantime of course we've recently received the report, our officials are studying it, I'll study it myself, and we'll come to our own conclusions about what strategic changes, if any, need to be made.
But I've made it clear, we've received no request for additional troops and I'm not anticipating one.
REPORTER: But just on why eight years in we're at the situation still where the top US commander there is warning of failure. Is it because mistakes were made? Is it because the Taliban was underestimated? Why are we in this situation?
STEPHEN SMITH: I know we talk about an eight year timetable, and that's right, but there was a substantial diversion and digression called Iraq, which of course when we were in Opposition we were opposed to. That did give the opportunity for the Taliban to effectively dig itself in.
I think also it's been the case that the benefit of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border crossings was under-appreciated for some time. It's only really been in the last 18 months that the international community, and Pakistan itself, has come to appreciate the full extent and the full dangers of the porous nature of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, which is why in very many respects this arena is now referred to as the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area.
But the important thing is to remain clear about what the objective is, and the objective is - so soon after the most recent anniversary of September 11 - to understand that what we're trying to do is to combat what is effectively the hotbed of international terrorism, and reduce that, if not eliminate that, so that it is not an ongoing danger to the international community, including Australia.
REPORTER: However, is there going to come a point where some form of reconciliation with the Taliban on a political level is going to be necessary?
STEPHEN SMITH: Substantial capacity building on the part of the Afghan people and nation - in the end we need the Afghan people to be able to deal with these matters themselves - which is why a very substantial part of the Australian effort is training; training the Afghan army, training the Afghan police, building their national institutions.
REPORTER: But where does the Taliban...
STEPHEN SMITH: The third thing, which is essential, is in the end there does have to be a political reconciliation, a political rapprochement amongst the political powers in Afghanistan. That can only come from Afghanistan and the Afghanistan Government itself. It can only start there.
But it's clearly the case that there are people who are in Afghanistan who are attracted to the Taliban because they see no alternative. There has to be presented to them an alternative.
Not all of the people who are fellow travellers or supporters of the Taliban are concerns, or a worry so far as international terrorism is concerned.
REPORTER: So they can be swung back away from the Taliban or would Australia be willing to accept any form of Taliban involvement in an Afghan government?
STEPHEN SMITH: No, no, it's - well, firstly, it has to start with the Afghan Government or the Afghan people themselves. Secondly, certain preconditions have to be met. And the Karzai Government, the current Government, has made it clear that it sees a number of preconditions.
There would have to be a commitment to the laying down of arms. There would have to be a commitment to respecting the Afghan constitution, and there would have to be also assurances effectively that you weren't dealing with hardcore international terrorists.
The other point that Australia has made, and I have made the point both before and after the recent Afghanistan elections, is there needs also to be considerable progress on issues of grave concern to Australia and the international community on anti-narcotics, on corruption and governance matters, and on respect for individual human rights, particularly respect for women.
And unless we see progress on those fronts, there will continue to be an ebbing of confidence so far as the international community is concerned in the Afghan Government and the Afghan institutions.
REPORTER: Minister, a final question. The UN talks here this week are very much focused on climate change. We've seen today's progress from China and Japan putting detail on the table about what they're prepared to do. Is the ball now in the court of the United States?
STEPHEN SMITH: I think today has been a good day, I think a good day in this sense: for the first time in a long time we've seen the United States turn up and wanting to have and showing leadership on climate change. Didn't put anything new on the table but it's been a long time since a US President has turned up to the General Assembly and made a speech, which has been showing leadership on climate change, and wanting to get an outcome, a positive outcome.
We welcome very much the new initiatives which the Chinese have put on the table...
REPORTER: But the Americans have to do the same now, don't they?
STEPHEN SMITH: In all of this there are new responses that need to be put on the table by a whole range of developed and developing countries. But we welcome, for example, the new Japanese Prime Minister
Hatoyama putting the new Japanese proposal on the table.
What we saw as essential today and this week was the building of political momentum, the building of political will to get a positive outcome in Copenhagen. And on that measure you'd have to say that today was a good day. But it won't be one day that makes a positive agreement in Copenhagen. It will require ongoing extensive efforts. And Australia has been at the forefront of that, as has the Obama Administration. And we know it will be a hard slog but we remain absolutely committed to getting a decent outcome on climate change.
KIERAN GILBERT: The Foreign Minister Stephen Smith, speaking to SKY News political editor, David Speers, there in New York.
[ENDS]
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