Transcript
13 September 2009
Interview - Channel 10, Meet the Press with Paul Bongiorno
Subjects: Global financial crisis, Australia-Indonesia relationship, Afghan election, new US Ambassador to Australia, Sri Lanka
PAUL BONGIORNO: Let's welcome back to the program Foreign Minister Stephen Smith, good morning, Minister.
STEPHEN SMITH: Good morning, Paul.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Well the World Bank's Managing Director, and I guess the World Bank is hardly a hotbed of socialists, doesn't agree with Joe Hockey but if we take our own opposition as a yardstick of where the centre right is, the G20 notions are all very big spending socialists, aren't they?
STEPHEN SMITH: I think there's a number of points to be made here, Paul.
Firstly, it's clearly the case that Mr Hockey has made a bit of a fool of himself and it's regrettable that that has spread not just from Australian domestic commentary but to international commentary.
And the importance of that is that Australia has been making the point that the G20 is clearly the obvious and most relevant international institution to be dealing with these very difficult global economic matters.
The G20 covers developed and developing economies, north and south, east and west. Eighty to 85 per cent of the world's economy or trade countries or trade movements are in the G20. We've been working very hard to try and establish the G20 as the premier international institution so far as these matters is concerned. And Mr Hockey's very silly comments don't actually help in that respect.
PAUL BONGIORNO: But he is making the point, I believe, that maybe we should be taking a check on just how much spending is now needed?
STEPHEN SMITH: When the G20 met, the finance ministers met recently, they all made the point, and Mr Swan, when he returned, made this point to the Parliament and publicly, they all made the point that now was not the time to withdraw the stimulus, now is not the time to withdraw the spending.
Yes, of course we have to look sensibly at how we exit from our current economic difficulties, but now is not the time. And apart from silly conspiracy theories about centre left politics, every developed economy, every serious interested economy, every serious interested nation in the world other than the Liberal Party in Australia, is making the point that we have to continue with our economic stimulus and judge very carefully in the future how we exit from that.
Mr Hockey has made a fool of himself and it just shows how completely out of touch the Liberal Party is on these very important and difficult matters.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Well, Minister, going to the other big announcement during the week that the Australian Federal Police will investigate Indonesian suspects for war crimes in East Timor back in 1975, we now have the president of Indonesia himself warning that this isn't a good idea, it's raking over the past and it will harm relations.
STEPHEN SMITH: From the Indonesian perspective, of course they look at this matter nearly 35 years ago, events of 1975, terrible and tragic events.
From the Australian perspective, of course, we've had two independent exercises of judgement within Australia.
Firstly, the New South Wales deputy coroner in November 2007 on the Peters matter, an inquest into the Peters' death, one of the Balibo Five. That effectively asked the AFP to conduct an investigation and in the course of last week the AFP advised the families - and I made sure Indonesia was advised - that they had determined to conduct an independent investigation...
PAUL BONGIORNO: Minister, would the AFP have gone ahead with this investigation if Mick Keelty was still the Commissioner?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, it's not a matter who the Commissioner is, it's a matter for the independent judgement of the AFP and the AFP Commissioner has announced that the AFP determined independently to make that judgement and to commence an investigation.
But in terms of our relationship with Indonesia, we do have to handle it very sensitively, very carefully and that's what we're doing. We've got a first class relationship with Indonesia and we're very confident that this issue can be managed.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Well, one of the prime suspects in the AFP war crimes investigation is former Indonesian military commander and later government minister Yunus Yosfiah. Now he's been protesting is innocence for years.
[Beginning of file footage excerpt]
REPORTER: There are new allegations being made by a Portuguese East Timorese witness who was there.
YUNUS YOSFIAH: It's untrue, totally untrue.
[End of excerpt]
PAUL BONGIORNO: Now, Minister, even if the AFP do find that this gentleman has a case to answer, Indonesia's hardly going to hand him over. It will be a lot of effort and a lot of time for very little reward.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, obviously, I am not proposing to comment on any of the details of the AFP investigation or who may or may not be a suspect, I'll leave that to the AFP.
But it's very important that we take this step by step. The AFP have exercised an independent judgement to commence an investigation and I think it's very important we don't get too far ahead of ourselves in terms of contemplating extradition or prosecutions. We need to take it step by step.
PAUL BONGIORNO: But do you fear in the meantime, however, that the very good cooperation we're getting from Indonesia in the fight against terrorism and indeed in combating people smuggling is at risk?
STEPHEN SMITH: No I don't. We've got a first class relationship with Indonesia. We were handed from our predecessors a very good relationship. It's gone to, in our view, an even better level.
We don't believe that any of the ongoing cooperation between Australia and Indonesia will be disturbed in any way. We do need to handle this matter sensitively just as, for example, we need to handle sensitively other matters where we know there's potential for differences, like capital punishment and the like. And indeed, this was one of the matters that Prime Minister Rudd and President Yudhoyono referred to in their first meeting back in December 2007.
So we know we have to manage it carefully but we are absolutely confident that the first class relationship we have with Indonesia will continue at every level and that includes cooperation on people smuggling and counter-terrorism, where Indonesia has a first class record...
PAUL BONGIORNO: Okay.
STEPHEN SMITH: ...in combating terrorism.
[Break in Program]
PAUL BONGIORNO: You're on Meet the Press with Foreign Minister Stephen Smith and welcome to our panel, Eleanor Hall, ABC, the World Today. Good morning, Eleanor.
ELEANOR HALL: Hello, Paul.
PAUL BONGIORNO: And Mark Kenny the Advertiser. Good morning, Mark.
MARK KENNY: Good morning, Paul.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Eleven Australian soldiers have lost their lives trying to secure Afghanistan against the Taliban and to establish an enduring democracy. But there are now grave doubts over the validity of the recent elections, even President Karzai's own handpicked electoral commission admitting widespread fraud. Rival candidate Abdullah Abdullah says the election has been stolen.
ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: It will be very difficult to justify the support if the outcome of an election which hundreds of millions of dollars has been spent in NATO soldiers have died for the civilisation of this country and then, as a result fraud, decides the outcome, then I think it sounds like a tragic joke.
ELEANOR HALL: Stephen Smith, that's the key opposition candidate there calling the election result in Afghanistan a tragic joke. What is Australia's official position on this election now?
STEPHEN SMITH: Our position, as the Minster for Defence and I have articulated during last week, which is we want to wait for the final analysis from the Afghanistan Election Commission and the Election Complaints Commission. And that's responding to the call from the United Nations special representative in Afghanistan Kai Eide, who has essentially asked all interested parties to not pre-judge or come to final conclusions in advance of the final report - a report which we're expecting in the middle of this month, but obviously given the very difficult circumstances that may slip a bit.
ELEANOR HALL: Well, president Hamid Kazai…
STEPHEN SMITH: Of course we've expressed…
ELEANOR HALL: President Hamid Kazai has already been told that he has enough of the vote to avoid a run-off. Would Australia support his re-election if that were to be the official result given the circumstances?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, there are a number of points. Firstly no official result has been declared and we're patiently waiting for that.
Secondly, we've seen the Election Complaints Commission rule out a number of ballots from particular polling booths on the basis of fraud. Obviously we're concerned about that, but we're also pleased to see the Complaints Commission doing its job.
We will wait until there's a final outcome before giving out concluded analysis. But I do make this point, it's a point I made before the election - irrespective of who prevails in the Afghanistan election, Australia and the international community will look to that government to make substantial progress on some of the very serious issues in Afghanistan: anti-narcotics, corruption, respect for women so far as their human rights are concerned.
These are areas where, frankly, in the last 18 months or so, there has been an ebbing of confidence in President Karzai, both so far as Australia is concerned and also the international community, so whoever prevails, substantial progress has to be made on those fronts.
ELEANOR HALL: But Minister, are you worried that if it is Hamid Karzai who prevails, you may see Iran-style protests in the Afghan community?
STEPHEN SMITH: Which is why we are patiently waiting for the Afghan Election Commission and Election Complaints Commission to do its job.
Of course we have indicated our concern about some of the circumstances and some of the findings, to date, of the Election Complaints Commission but bear in mind this was, of course, an election conducted effectively in a state of war.
It's the first election the Afghans have conducted themselves for 30 years. It was never going to be a clean run or a perfect thing. But we're proposing to reserve our ultimate judgement pending the final reports of both those commissions. We're pleased to see that they are doing their job, but of course like the rest of the international community, whether it's the United States, the United Nations or the UK, we have our very serious concerns.
MARK KENNY: Stephen Smith, isn't it the case though that really Hamid Karzai has become an embarrassment to the West, to the US and to us and that we now seeing a situation where he is doing deals with Taliban elements with factional warlords, really taking the situation backwards and Afghanistan's experience of democracy is going to be a very bitter one. What are Australians really fighting and dying for in Afghanistan if this is the kind of mediocre result?
STEPHEN SMITH: What Australia's presence in Afghanistan is doing is making our contribution in our own national interest.
We are now two days after the most recent anniversary of September 11. We are there because Afghanistan and the Afghanistan Pakistan border area is the current hotbed or breeding ground of international terrorism.
And we've seen, again, in Indonesia recently, how that can cause the deaths of Australians. So we're making a contribution to a United Nations mandated international force which is there to try and reduce the capacity of international terrorism to strike at innocent victims around the world, including Australians.
ELEANOR HALL: Minister, looking more broadly at the Australia US relationship, President Obama has just announced that Jeffrey Bleich will be the new US Ambassador to Australia, someone very close to the President. Presumably you will respond in kind in appointing an Australian Ambassador to the US. Who were you thinking of?
STEPHEN SMITH: Firstly on President Obama's nominee, of course we were consulted and we welcomed the nomination. It needs to go through the Congressional process but it's a significant appointment and we welcome it very much.
Our current Ambassador to the United States, Ambassador Richardson, of course will return before the end of the year to become the Secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. And so between now and then, the Prime Minister and I will announce a new Australian Ambassador and as is invariably the case with these matters, we don't flag too much in advance our intentions.
But obviously it's an appointment that is a very important appointment and one that the Prime Minister and I have had a number of conversations about. When we announce the appointment it will of course be a significant announcement.
MARK KENNY: Mr Bleich's announcement is being seen as a very significant in terms of the relationship, the growing bond, personally, between President Obama and Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. Is it important that we respond in kind, that we in fact appoint someone who has the ear of the Prime Minister in the same way that Mr Bleich has of President Obama and names like Kim Beazley and Bob Carr have been put up who would probably fit that bill.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, I am not proposing to comment upon or name any individuals, I make this point though: the American tradition is, essentially, what we would describe as political appointments, so far as Australia is concerned.
The history of our appointments of Ambassadors to the United States is one of two types, either political appointments or former ministers - for example Andrew Peacock, a former Foreign Minister - or experienced high-ranked diplomats like Ambassador Richardson.
And so far as we're concerned, we know this is a significant appointment and the person who goes [as] ambassador will certainly have the ear of the Foreign Minister and the Prime Minister.
The US Alliance of course, continues to be the bedrock of our strategic defence and security arrangements. But we're working very closely with the Obama Administration, the Prime Minister with the President and myself with Secretary of State Clinton, on a range of matters including our very strong views on the G20 which I remarked about earlier in the program.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Minister, just briefly before we go, Sri Lanka is about to throw out James Elder, an Australian who works for the United Nations, they don't like the fact that Mr Elder has concerns over the treatment of Tamil children in camps, what - has Australia protested about this?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, we have spoken, our officials have spoken to Mr Elder, because he's an Australian citizen, and he doesn't require our assistance at the moment. We've also spoken at officials level to UN officials and they don't require our intervention. The UN is, in a sense, primarily responsible for those visa issues.
I've had a look at Mr Elder's reported remarks and I don't see any difficulty with those. He's been making the point, as has the Australian Government, that we need to see access by the international agencies, whether it's UNICEF or other international agencies, the Red Cross, to the displaced people's camps.
And indeed we need to see the Sri Lankan Government now resettling the nearly quarter of a million people in those camps. To assist with that I am today announcing a further $2 million contribution by Australia to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and the International Organisation for Migration to help resettle those very large number of people in those camps. But access by the international organisations is very important and that's the point that Mr Elder has been making on behalf of UNICEF.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Thank you very much for being with us Foreign Minister Stephen Smith.
[ENDS]
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