Transcript E&OE
14 July 2009
Interview - Radio National
Subject: Detention of Australian citizen Stern Hu.
FRAN KELLY: Well, for the third time in a week, the Federal Government has called in the Acting Chinese Ambassador in Canberra, to learn more about the detention of Australian citizen, and Rio Tinto executive, Stern Hu.
The Opposition says the solution to this diplomatic puzzle is simple, pick up the phone. It's calling for the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister to call their political counterparts in China, and demand answers.
Foreign Affairs Minister, Stephen Smith, is on his way to Egypt for a meeting of a Non-Aligned Movement of States, he's currently in Malta on a brief stopover, and he speaks to us from there now. Minister, good morning.
STEPHEN SMITH: Good morning, Fran.
FRAN KELLY: Stephen Smith, are you any clearer today on the charges pending against Stern Hu?
STEPHEN SMITH: We have again pressed Chinese officials yesterday to do two things: firstly to provide us with more detailed information about the circumstances relating to Mr Hu's detention, and secondly, to urge them that this is a matter that needs to be dealt with expeditiously, and that message was delivered in Canberra, when as you say, for the third occasion, the Acting Ambassador was called in. It was also delivered by our officials in Beijing.
The first week of this matter, our priority was to ensure that we had access to Mr Hu, and to satisfy ourselves as to his welfare and wellbeing. We've done that, and yesterday in Canberra, Chinese officials gave assurances that while Mr Hu remained in detention, he would be well cared for, and appropriately cared for, and that we should be satisfied about his welfare and wellbeing, so our priority now is to get that detailed information, but also to urge China, and the Chinese authorities, to deal with this matter expeditiously.
FRAN KELLY: And after the third meeting with the Acting Ambassador, have you started to get any of those answers, did you get any more detail yesterday, or any promises that this thing will be sped up?
STEPHEN SMITH: No, and that's why we pressed them both in Canberra and in Beijing. But I've made the point in recent days, despite some people thinking that somehow this difficult issue can be magically solved by one phone call, this is a difficult and complex case, it requires constant attention, which is what we're giving it, it may well, as I've said, see Australia in this matter for the long haul, and we need to take this step by step, in a detailed, methodical, sensible, rational way, where what we do is appropriate and proportionate in the circumstances, and the Government is absolutely clear and convinced of the way in which it is dealing with this matter, is appropriate in all the circumstances.
FRAN KELLY: Minister, you say this is a difficult and complex case, but it's a pretty simple question, isn't it, what are the details of the charges pending? Why aren't the Chinese giving you a decent response? It's pretty disrespectful, isn't it?
STEPHEN SMITH: Firstly, it's a matter which sees Mr Hu being dealt with potentially under Chinese law, and I've made the point on a number of occasions when an Australian citizen gets into difficulty, or falls into the criminal or the legal or justice system of another country, we have to deal with that, so we're dealing with Mr Hu, and the circumstances that apply to him, under Chinese law, and there's no magical solution that Australia can insert from outside, into that system.
And so that's what we're dealing with, and we have pressed Chinese officials in the last 24 hours, to provide us with a couple of things, to provide us with the detailed information that we need to more fully understand the circumstances relating to his detention.
It's quite clear from official statements made by either spokespeople from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in China, or official statements from the State Security Bureau, that they see this as being related to negotiations conducted for the 2009 iron ore negotiations, the prices, which have not yet concluded.
That has certainly narrowed the focus from the wider ambit of espionage or stealing state secrets, but to enable us to, in our view, try and protect Mr Hu's interests, we need to have more detail about that, and more precise detail about it, and that's what we're pressing Chinese officials for.
FRAN KELLY: Minister, China is our number one trading partner, this is a funny way to behave with our number one trading partner, isn't it, it's hardly the actions of a friend, I mean you've been reduced to scouring websites to find out the latest, our Trade Minister concedes he's having to read the papers over there, to get information, this is not the behaviour of a friend, is it?
STEPHEN SMITH: Chinese officials say to us that this is a matter which is, and will be, dealt with under Chinese law, and in accordance with Chinese procedures.
FRAN KELLY: I understand that, Minister, but my point is that they're not even giving you the courtesy of giving you the details, despite the fact it's under their legal system, they could still update you on what is actually going on.
STEPHEN SMITH: Whilst it's a nice pejorative point to make, the fact is that the information that I'm relying upon and going by is statements by official Chinese Foreign Ministry or State Security spokespeople, or official statements. I've made it crystal clear as have our officials, that I would have much preferred that this information be given to us through the normal diplomatic channels, and you can be reliably assured that that's a point that has been made in the last 24 hours, to Chinese officials both here and in Beijing.
But this is separate from the very productive and strong economic and trading relationship we have with China, and we're dealing here with the difficult circumstances of an Australian citizen being detained, under Chinese law, for suspicion of espionage and state secrets. The Chinese authorities and Chinese law take a much wider view and ambit of that than Australia would, or Australians would normally understand. A reference to that conjures up in our minds a reference to national security, or intelligence matters. It's quite clear the focus here is on economic and commercial matters related to the iron ore industry, and that's what we need to get more information on.
FRAN KELLY: So this is about economic and trade matters? As I said before, China is our number one trading partner, why doesn't the Prime Minister, in this crucial trading relationship, pick up the phone to his counterpart, and demand some answers here, and demand some cooperation at least, not necessarily intervention, in a legal process?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well firstly, it's not about our wider economic and trade relationship.
FRAN KELLY: Well, it could very well be, a lot of that's based around iron ore.
STEPHEN SMITH: It is about, on the basis of the official statements by Chinese officials, about the negotiations in the context of the 2009 iron ore price negotiations between private Australian companies, and Chinese iron ore and steel industry companies, and allegations of potential bribery by Mr Hu, of Chinese officials. That is a much narrower issue, than describing it as being related to Australia's trading and economic circumstances with China.
Now people can take, if you like, a different view as to how they think the problem might be solved, Mr Turnbull somehow magically thinks that one phone call will solve the problem, that's not, for example, clearly the view shared by the Premier of Western Australia, Mr Barnett, and it's not the view that I share.
This is a difficult problem, and my very strong view is that the best way of protecting Mr Hu's interest, the best way of trying to deal with a difficult and complex situation in accordance with Chinese law, is to be dealing with this matter methodically, in an appropriate manner, which responds to every difficulty that we face in a step-by-step basis.
That is not, as I've seen, the assertion made for the Australian Government to give up on Mr Hu, it is to make a judgement that the best way to advance his interest, is to deal with this methodically, sensibly, and in a way which gives an appropriate and proportionate response to each issue, or difficulty, or problem, as we face it.
The priority now, in our view, very strongly has to be the provision of more information, and also urging the Chinese authorities to deal with this matter expeditiously. Anyone who has observed Chinese law and Chinese practice in areas such as this, will tell you that there are no guaranteed timetables, there are no guaranteed timetables about when detention might move to a formal charge, or, if and when detention does move to a charge, how long a trial process might take. That is the nature of what we're dealing with, which is why we are taking every sensible and appropriate opportunity to raise this matter at a sensible level with the Chinese authorities, to try and advance Mr Hu's interests.
FRAN KELLY: All right, Minister, thank you very much for your time.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks, Fran, thanks very much.
[End]
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