E&OE
28 May 2009
Interview - Lateline ABC
Subjects: Consular issues;
North Korea missile tests; Aung San Suu Kyi; diplomatic appointment
to Sweden.
LEIGH SALES: Joining Lateline live from Canberra tonight is Australia's Foreign Minister Stephen Smith.
Good to have you with us, Minister.
STEPHEN SMITH:
Good evening.
LEIGH SALES: As we heard earlier on the program, Abdifatah
Elmi, the Somali translator detained with Nigel Brennan for more than
half his captivity has told Lateline that no Australian officials have
interviewed him since his release. Is that true?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, let me make this point absolutely
crystal clear, as I have in the last couple of days. In my very strong
view, public discussion about the Brennan kidnapping matter does not
help Nigel, does not help his family and does not help our efforts to
return him to his family. And I've also made the point that I've previously
requested Australian media not to give airplay to this issue because
I think that prejudices our prospects of returning him. So I'm certainly
not going to go into detail of what would generally or normally be described
as operational matters when an Australian citizen has been kidnapped
and frankly, his life is at risk.
LEIGH SALES: Why do you think that speaking publicly about it
endangers him?
STEPHEN SMITH: Because all of the evidence, all of the
advice, all of the international experience of kidnappings in Somalia
is it is a deliberate and deliberative device of the kidnappers to seek
to get leverage, to increase their demands and to make life more difficult
for those people and their families whom they have kidnapped.
It is all of the advice that
we've received from other countries who's nationals have been kidnapped
in what is essentially a lawless and stateless society that this is
a deliberative device of the kidnappers and frankly we should not play
into it and I'm not proposing to.
LEIGH SALES: I hear what you're saying, Minister. I understand
it, I do. The reason I'm persisting with it though, is that DFAT has
assured the Brennan family that they are doing everything they can for
Nigel Brennan and that to trust DFAT when it advises them not to speak
publicly about the issue. Now, it's revealed tonight that Australian
authorities haven't spoken to the translator who was captive with Mr
Brennan for five months. How do you imagine that the Brennan family
feels tonight hearing that?
STEPHEN SMITH: Firstly, you should not believe all the
assertions that you hear from Somalia generally. I make that point,
advisedly. Secondly, the Brennan family is in a terrible position, a
terrible situation. I've met with them, I've spoken to them and we feel
very much for them. What they want is their son returned to them and
frankly, this conversation, in my view, is not assisting that process.
LEIGH SALES: Let me ask you one more question about it.
When Britt Lapthorne went missing in Croatia, the Lapthorne family felt
that the actions of Australian authorities, in their view, weren't up
to scratch and that they had no option eventually but to use the media
to apply pressure. How can the Brennans be sure that they're doing
the right thing in trusting DFAT on this?
STEPHEN SMITH: In the end, the Brennan family has to make
their own decisions and we do our best to give them access to all the
advice that we have, to all the support we have from all our various
agencies. We've tried to be and have been, in my view, open and frank
with them. I think they understand better than most all of the difficulties
that they're facing. In their efforts and our efforts to try and bring
an Australian citizen who has been kidnapped in a stateless society
back home to them.
They, in my view, are a family
who deserves nothing but the greatest admiration for their determination,
their stoicism and frankly, their bravery. But in the end, they'll make
their own judgments, their own decisions. And I don't want to labour
a point, they're best off making their own decisions in the privacy
of their own home, not aired on national and international TV.
LEIGH SALES: Let me just ask you one more time, is it true
that Australian authorities have not spoken to that translator who was
held?
STEPHEN SMITH: I am certainly not going to talk about operational
matters when an Australian who's been kidnapped in Somalia is at risk.
LEIGH SALES: Minister, let's turn to North Korea
and its nuclear test this week. What sanctions would Australia like
to see imposed?
STEPHEN SMITH: Firstly, we already have United Nations
Security Council sanctions through resolution 1718. That was a direct
result of the underground explosion that North Korea effected in 2006.
Those sanctions go to prohibition of weapons trade with North Korea,
also a ban on luxury items.
We would encourage two things. Firstly, more nation states to impose those sanctions as Australia have. But secondly, we also have, as a small number of countries have, adopted autonomous sanctions, going to effectively travel sanctions so far as members of the regime are concerned. What has previously been considered and what we know is very effective are financial sanctions on members of the regime and that is certainly something which I've instructed our officials in New York to raise with the permanent and non-permanent members of the Security Council.
We need to do two things. We
need to have a strong and robust response from the Security Council,
which we're satisfied the Security Council is working on. But then,
secondly and more deliberatively, literally when the dust settles, we
do have to find some way of trying to bring North Korea back into a
sensible dialogue.
LEIGH SALES: The events of the past week, though, have
shown that sanctions and engagement thus far have been fruitless. At
what point do we start looking for different tactics?
STEPHEN SMITH: I think the first thing we need a unanimous
response from the international community through the Security Council.
I think that's very important. We know we're dealing with a very difficult
regime and I've described them publicly and privately as often, if not
generally, impervious to other views.
Somehow, we've got a break through. It is certainly the case, and we welcome very much the comments that we've seen and the response that we've seen from China, that those nation states, small number of nation states who do have some influence, really have to bring that influence to bear. For example, we've made the point at officials' level to China that this is a country who they regard as a friend and a partner in the region. But their friend and partner in the region is now acting in a way which is not in China's interest, let alone the region's interest.
So, we do have to find a way
of bringing them back to brook. Our view would be immediate reintroduction
of the six party talks. I'm not starry eyed about that. But in addition
to a robust response, which in our view should involve sanctions, we've
got to find some mechanism to bring them back to a dialogue.
LEIGH SALES: In the past, a South Korean report has said
that part of northern Australia is within range of a North Korean missile.
Is that accurate?
STEPHEN SMITH: When it comes to capability, I think we
need to look at it in this context: I'm not asserting that North Korea
has a weapons capability or a weapons capability delivery system. But
what we do know is this: from the two year period 2006 until 2008, both
in terms of their testing of a long range missile launch facility and
their underground test, they have frankly dramatically improved. Their
missile launch in 2006 was an abysmal failure, and whilst their launch
in April of this year could not be described on any measure as an ambiguous
success, it was a qualitative improvement. Equally ...
LEIGH SALES: So, yes or no: could they reach Australia?
STEPHEN SMITH: I'm not asserting they have a delivery system
or a weapons capability, but let me make the point about their underground
explosion: all of the analysis in 2006 was that the small measure or
nature of that explosion was a result of a failed attempt at a larger
explosion. We now see an underground explosion of the level of Hiroshima.
So the great danger to international
peace and security and to the region and to the international community
generally including Australia is an advance by them of a weapons delivery
and weapons system. That's the great threat and that is why the international
community through the Security Council has responded in 2006, has made
an initial response in 2008 and needs to take that response further.
LEIGH SALES: Alright. Let's move on to Burma, which has
also been in the news with Aung San Suu Kyi's appearance in court this
week. Australia maintains diplomatic ties with Burma. We have an embassy
in Rangoon, we impose some financial and defence sanctions on Burma,
but not trade ones. Is it time to revisit that?
STEPHEN SMITH: It's very appropriate that we do have a
mission in Rangoon. I've in fact just got off the phone to our Ambassador
to get an update on, effectively, the day's trial proceedings. Diplomats
were excluded and so we've relied upon Aung San Suu Kyi's lawyers and
also other sources to get an update of what's occurred today. One of
the very worrying things today was that three out of the four defence
witnesses on her behalf were essentially told they wouldn't be able
to give evidence because they were "unreliable witnesses".
Normally a ...
LEIGH SALES: Well is that the sort of thing that would
cause us to revisit things like trade sanctions on Burma?
STEPHEN SMITH: Let me come to that, because on the anniversary
of her detention, I think it's important to make a couple of points
about her personal situation.
LEIGH SALES: I think we're all pretty familiar with her
personal situation, so I'd rather, given the limited time, that you
answered the question, which is: would the Government consider revisiting
the issue of trade sanctions with Burma?
STEPHEN SMITH: Normally when a court is dealing with someone
fairly, they listen to a witness before they make a judgment about reliability.
That hasn't occurred in her case today. This court process we fear will
be simply a device to see her further incarceration or detention.
We have had very robust sanctions against Burma, both in the context of travel and also in the context of financial sanctions. We have deliberately not gone down the road of trade sanctions because we don't want to do things which will even further adversely impact upon the Burmese people themselves. One of the reasons, for example, we've been very generous in our humanitarian assistance post-Cyclone Nargis, again we're dealing with a difficult regime.
The countries which can influence
that regime are some of our ASEAN and Asian partners. And that's why
we've been very pleased that we've seen a very strong response from
ASEAN over her detention, echoing Australia's call, long standing call,
for her immediate and unconditional release. And I've been very pleased
and made that point when I've spoken to my ASEAN colleagues. So ...
LEIGH SALES: OK. Alright, let's move on to a couple of
other things I want to discuss before you go. Mr Smith, why do you think
that there's a perception that you're a weak foreign minister?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, Leigh, I don't respond to reviews
that I see and I certainly don't respond to anonymous reviews.
And I'm very happy for your viewers and the general public to make their
own judgments, unassisted by anonymous reviews about how the Government
is going in foreign policy, and for that matter, how they judge my own
performance. For my part, I'm very pleased about the progress we are
making in advancing our foreign policy priorities. And I'm happy to
let the community make their own judgments.
LEIGH SALES: Does Kevin Rudd micro manage your portfolio?
STEPHEN SMITH: No, he does not. Kevin Rudd applies himself
across the raft of policy areas in a manner in which a Prime Minister
should and ought. It would be of course nonsense to suggest that a Prime
Minister of the day not take an interest in foreign policy matters.
You know, I find the suggestion which I see from time to time that the
Prime Minister should not be taking an interest in foreign or national
security policy to frankly be quite bizarre.
LEIGH SALES: Despite that, even with that, though, would
you concede that it's unusual for a Prime Minister to veto a diplomatic
appointment to a post like Germany, as has recently happened in the
case of Hugh Borrowman?
STEPHEN SMITH: That is a suggestion that I've seen publicly.
Again, people can make their own assumptions about that. For myself,
I proceed on the basis of the process of appointments to ambassadorial
positions, which is of long standing practice by governments for a long
period of time. As Foreign Minister, I made recommendations about appointments
to the Governor-General in Executive Council. That's the recommendation
I make. And of course, from time to time, I consult and discuss these
matters with the Prime Minister, as I should. That's occurred on every
watch, so to speak, so far as appointments has concerned.
LEIGH SALES: OK.
STEPHEN SMITH: And when the appointment is made, I announce
it. And, in the case of the matter you're referring to, we're sending
a very good officer to Sweden. He'll be a very good ambassador in what
is an important European Union post.
LEIGH SALES: Alright. Let me ask you about the former Foreign
Minister Alexander Downer, who's written a column in the 'Adelaide Advertiser'
this week prompted by the case of the bar mat mum in Thailand and events
like Hurricane Katrina and the war in Lebanon. He writes, "I didn't
have the guts to say this as Foreign Minister, but don't you think you
should take responsibility for yourself when you go overseas? If you're
too dumb or idle to read the travel advisories and too mean to take
out travel insurance when you go overseas, then you ought to take responsibility
for your own behaviour." Do you agree with his views?
STEPHEN SMITH: I have articulated my own view, and I'm
not in any way being disparaging of Alexander Downer, my predecessor,
or disparaging of Tony Street, as I've seen some people being disparaging
of both of them in the course of the day.
Let me make this point: I have
said consistently that when Australians go overseas they should do a
range of things. They should certainly firstly consult the travel advisory
and the Smartraveller website. Secondly, when they are overseas they
should conduct themselves absolutely in accordance with the law of the
land in which they are in, but also have an eye to what is appropriate
behaviour in that culture, in that country and conduct themselves accordingly.
Because when Australians do get into trouble, do get into difficulty,
particularly when they are before the criminal or the judicial system
of another country, there is a limit to what we can do for them. I've
had people who should know better, frankly, ask of me to do things,
which if they asked of me in Australia, either to stop police from prosecuting
or to stop courts from trying people, would be a very serious criminal
offence in Australian terms. So when people get into trouble overseas,
there's a limit to what we can do, but we do always render as much consular
assistance as we can to Australians who find themselves in difficulties
overseas.
LEIGH SALES: Foreign Minister Stephen Smith, many thanks
for coming in.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks very much.
[Ends]
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