E&OE
27 May 2009
Interview: Radio National AM with Fran Kelly
Subjects: The Copenhagen Conference and the Government's Emissions Trading Scheme; North Korea nuclear and missile tests; Aung San Suu Kyi trial; Australian photographer Nigel Brennan.
FRAN KELLY: Well the Federal Government has always argued that it wants its Emissions Trading Scheme through parliament in time for the key international talks on climate change in Copenhagen at the end of the year.
Foreign Affairs Minister Stephen Smith joins us now.
Minister, good morning.
STEPHEN SMITH: Good morning Fran.
FRAN KELLY: Minister, as Foreign Minister, does it make any difference internationally really if the Emissions Trading Scheme legislation isn't through the parliament, given that we now have clear stated bipartisan support for your targets?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, we think it's very important to have that legislation because it gives us a clear negotiating position. It says to the rest of the world, we'll do a minimum of a five per cent reduction but we can go to a maximum of 25 per cent, if we get a good international outcome. The other...
FRAN KELLY: Which is what the Opposition's prepared to accept.
STEPHEN SMITH: I'm not sure what the Opposition is prepared to accept Fran, because they keep changing their position, and they keep...
FRAN KELLY: Well, they're supporting your targets.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well that's what they say this week. Let's see what they opportunistically say next week. But there are a couple of fundamental points here. The Government has made its timetable for its legislation clear. We're proposing to press forward with that. We believe that gives Australian business and industry certainty. We also think that it makes a substantial contribution from Australia, or by Australia, to mitigating against dangerous climate change. We also think that gives us a very good negotiating position for Copenhagen. And we're pressing ahead with that. And, frankly, I wish Senators in the Liberal Party would spend more time focusing on the important domestic and international consequences of that, than they are focusing on the arcane details about double dissolution triggers. I don't believe it's in anyone's interests to be focusing on double dissolutions or early elections when what we want is the Parliament to focus on very clearly the strong commitments that the Government has made, domestically and internationally, to abating dangerous climate change. We want to get this legislation through to give certainty to our domestic industry, and we want it to give us a decent negotiating position for Copenhagen so that we can make a good contribution.
FRAN KELLY: Nevertheless, you're an experienced political strategist, would you relish the chance to go to an election on the back of an Emissions Trading Scheme?
STEPHEN SMITH: As I say Fran, I don't think that it's in anyone's interest to be either going to or talking about double dissolutions or early elections. You know, in due course, next year or the year after, people can make their own judgements about what the Liberal Party and independent Senators have or haven't done in terms of their policy positions.
I think the Australian community will mark down very savagely the Liberal Party and independent Senators, if they start being politically opportunistic about climate change.
FRAN KELLY: Minister, let's go to North Korea now. It's hard to understand really what North Korea is up to with its nuclear test, and now these missile tests.
Global leaders, including Australia, are calling for a strong response. But what might that be? I mean, what are the new tricks in the diplomatic bag?
STEPHEN SMITH: Firstly we've seen reports yesterday and overnight of two more short-range missile testings. We're not in a position to verify that, so, it'll need a bit more time for verification of that. But putting that to one side, we of course restate all of the things that we said in the last couple of days - it's a very provocative act.
We were very pleased that the Security Council moved quickly to condemn it. The Security Council members are now working hard on a new resolution which we hope will emerge in the next few days. And which we want to condemn North Korea and call on them to rejoin the Six Party talks. But also we have to look at what more measures the international community can take, either calling on countries that don't currently impose existing sanctions, or indeed, look to additional sanctions, including and in particular financial sanctions on the regime itself.
But once the, if you like, the dust settles on that process, we then have to start thinking about what is the way in which we can bring the North Korean regime back into a dialogue.
FRAN KELLY: Mm.
STEPHEN SMITH: This is not a problem that's going to be solved overnight, or a problem that will be solved by the passing of a UN Resolution. We need a united international community bearing down on North Korea, but we also have to engage in some form of dialogue and I think that's the longer term process.
FRAN KELLY: And as you say, late yesterday, North Korea fired off two more short-range missiles I think they were. There has also been some talk around that a second nuclear test could be in the offing. Do you have any intelligence on that?
STEPHEN SMITH: We've seen those reports about North Korea indicating they might be contemplating a further nuclear test. Let's cross each bridge as we come to it. Obviously, if we can verify the two short-range missiles yesterday, that's another provocative act. A further nuclear, nuclear test would of course be, you know, massively provocative. But, I think the fundamental compelling point is this, we saw two years ago, in 2006, North Korea attempt a long-range missile launch, which was effectively a failure. And we also saw them conduct an underground test which was a much smaller underground nuclear test than the one we're currently dealing with. The analysis of that was that it was a small explosion because it was failure of a larger effort. Two years on we've seen substantial improvement, from their perspective, so far as both a missile launch is concerned, long-range missile launch and also a much larger nuclear test. So the danger and the worry here is that they are progressing down a path of developing their capability and that's what the international community needs to stop.
FRAN KELLY: Okay.
STEPHEN SMITH: That's, the combination of those two features is the great danger and threat to international peace and security.
FRAN KELLY: Its six minutes to eight on Breakfast. Our guest this morning is Foreign Minister Stephen Smith.
Minister, can we go to the trial of Aung San Suu Kyi now, on trial in Burma. Our Ambassador was in the Burmese court room yesterday. Is this trial a farce?
STEPHEN SMITH: I certainly believe it is. Yes, our Ambassador to Burma was one of the diplomats in the court room yesterday. I spoke to her last night. Her observation is that Aung San Suu Kyi is well. She's conducting herself with great dignity and resilience and she seems to be, you know, dealing with a very bad situation very, very well.
What we've also seen overnight of course is the regime has effectively ended her existing detention order. Today of course is the anniversary of her detention, the current detention. She has been in detention for 13 out of the last 19 years. And our position is that her detention should cease immediately and unconditionally. But what I worry about of course is that the current trial process is just a device to secure a further term of detention or imprisonment for her.
FRAN KELLY: Well that's right, because her home detention period is now over, according to the regime, suggesting she should be free. Do you think this will just end up being thrown into jail or something?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well there have been mixed signals from the regime until yesterday. They were, for a time, arguing that the current detention didn't expire until 27 November, in another six months. But yesterday they served on her, the Police Chief, who's also the deputy Home Affairs Minister, served on her a notice indicating the existing detention had ceased. But with the trial process today and over the last period, I frankly think that's just a device to secure a further period of detention for her. And I just repeat our longstanding position, which is she should be released immediately.
I welcome very much that our ASEAN colleagues have been very strong on this point as well, and late last week I spoke to the Secretary General of ASEAN and also my Thai counterpart Foreign Minister Kasit, Thailand of course currently Chair ASEAN, to both welcome their very strong remarks calling on her immediate release.
The ASEAN Foreign Ministers were together over the weekend and they have again issued a resolution calling upon her release; not just her release, but also the release of other political prisoners and of course we strongly support that.
FRAN KELLY: Minister, on another issue, for more than nine months now, Australian photographer Nigel Brennan has been held hostage in Somalia. Why can't we get him released?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, let me make a couple of points about that. Firstly, this is one of the matters I don't like talking about because frankly additional publicity to his circumstances, in our very strong view, does not actually help us to secure his release. It just gives encouragement to his kidnappers. Secondly, we're working very closely with his family and with all our agencies, trying to secure his release. We feel very much for the family. I've met them and spoken to them. And it's a terrible situation for them.
Somalia of course is one of those countries which are effectively a failed or a stateless state. So, it is very difficult. I don't understate the difficulties of this. It's always a terrible situation when an Australian is kidnapped. And we're doing everything we can. But, frankly, additional publicity to his circumstances, in our very view, does not assist our efforts or assist him.
FRAN KELLY: I understand that Minister, but, yesterday the, an agency - AFP - was reporting a statement from Nigel Brennan, calling for greater effort to secure his release and talking about the conditions under which he's held. Do you believe that that statement, reported on AFP, is real?
STEPHEN SMITH: Firstly Fran, just because an international agency reports something, doesn't mean that Australian media should follow it. I've made my points clear. I don't think a discussion about this assists him, assists his family, or assists our efforts.
FRAN KELLY: Minister, an unnamed former senior government official is quoted in The Australian newspaper today, saying that you're regarded as the weakest Foreign Minister in decades.
STEPHEN SMITH: [Laughs].
FRAN KELLY: What's your response to that?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well Fran, I rarely respond to reviews and I certainly don't respond to anonymous reviews. I'm happy for people to make judgements about the efforts that the Government is making on the foreign policy front. And I'm happy to be judged on our policy outcomes. I'm very pleased with the way in which we're progressing; re-establishing our relationships in Asia and the Pacific establishing first with the previous Bush Administration, now with the Obama Administration our strong alliance with the United States and working across the field whether it's Europe, whether it's India, whether it's Africa, to forge relationships that frankly have been neglected for a considerable period of time.
FRAN KELLY: But, the criticism comes off the back of this now public dispute over the appointment of the new ambassador to Germany. Were you over-ruled on that appointment, as reported?
STEPHEN SMITH: As I've said, firstly, there's no dispute so far as the Government's concerned, and...
FRAN KELLY: You didn't recommend that Hugh Borrowman should be the Ambassador?
STEPHEN SMITH: The recommendations I make in terms of our Ambassadorial appointments are to the Governor General and Executive Council. I've made a number of points about this in recent days. Firstly, I don't get into the pros and cons of various potential candidates for Ambassadorial positions. I make recommendations to the Governor General and I release public statements and announcements when that process is finished. And of course I consult on appointments with the Prime Minister. And I am not proposing to be drawn on rumour, speculation, anonymous comments, which are recycled through some of our media.
We're very pleased with the appointment of Mr Borrowman. He'll make a very good Ambassador. He's a good officer.
FRAN KELLY: Alright. Stephen Smith, thank you very much for your time this morning.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks Fran. Thanks very much.
FRAN KELLY: Australia's Foreign Minister Stephen Smith.
[Ends]
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