E&OE
15 April 2009 - Bali, Indonesia
Joint Press Conference with Indonesian Minister for Foreign Affairs Dr Hassan Wirajuda
Subjects: Bali Process Ministerial Meeting, humanitarian assistance for Rohingya people in Burma, people smuggling co-operation
WIRAJUDA: Colleagues, members of the mass media, I am pleased to announce that we have just concluded the Third Bali Regional Ministerial Conference on People Smuggling, Trafficking in Persons and Related Transnational Crimes. My colleague Foreign Minister Stephen Smith and I had the honour to co-chair the Conference that was attended by 33 participating countries of the Bali Process, observer countries, and regional and international organisations among them, the ASEAN Secretary General, the High Commissioner of Refugees and Director-General of the International Organization for Migration.
The Conference was graced by the attendance of 17 Ministers and 11 ministerial-level officials in addition to the Secretary General or heads of various regional and international organisations. A total of 197 participants attended the Conference. This attests to the importance that the region attaches to this vital issue. We have been very pleased by the contribution made by all the participants during our two-day deliberations. Yesterday was at the senior officials level and today, the Ministerial-level meeting. The meeting clearly shows the urgency with which the region is addressing this issue of illegal people movement.
This Conference proves that what Indonesia and Australia jointly sponsored by organising the 1st and 2nd Bali Regional Conference that the process is (inaudible) and that is why, in the context of the recent surge of irregular movements of peoples to our region and following our consultations, it was agreed to have the Bali Process revived. The fact that the Conference was well attended is a reflection of the sense of urgency of the problems we are facing.
At the end of this Conference we adopted the Co-Chairs Joint Statement which reflects the extent of our discussions, the agreements that we reached, and the steps to be taken from now and in the future.
I now invite my colleague Foreign Minister Stephen Smith to present his remarks.
SMITH: Well thank you very much Hassan. Firstly, can I say that how pleased I have been to have been able to co-chair together with Hassan Wirajuda, the Foreign Minister of the Republic of Indonesia, the Third Ministerial Conference of the Bali Regional Process. This is the first ministerial meeting that we have had since 2003. It is very timely and I think it is true to say that Hassan and I are both very pleased with the outcome.
The strength of the Bali Process is that it sees countries in our region dealing with the difficult issues of people smuggling, people trafficking and illegal human movement as a region. So many of the issues we face today, many of the international community's challenges, are challenges where it is often futile to act alone, whether it's people movement, transnational crime, climate change, or the global financial crisis. The lesson of very many of these problems is the need to act together, regionally and multilaterally. So we have been very pleased with the meeting, very pleased with the outcome.
The historic strength of the Bali Process, in addition to causing nations in our region to act together, has always been that it is a source of practical, operational cooperation. And these messages have been enlivened and enhanced. The best way of defeating the people smugglers is by cooperation not just nation to nation, government to government, but operationally. The sharing of information, whether that is border security information, whether its customs, whether it is defence force, whether it is intelligence, whether it is disruption activity. Sharing the information and having confidence in each other's processes is very important.
Hassan indicated that the Co-Chairs' Statement would also point to the future. We are very pleased that the conference has agreed to the establishment of the so called Ad-Hoc Group. This will enable the Bali Process at times of crisis or emergency or urgency, at the request of an affected country, either a source country, a transit country or a destination country, to trigger the Ad-Hoc Group process to enable urgent attention by the Bali Process. And this is a good thing.
In addition to the formal proceedings of the Conference there have of course been informal meetings or gatherings of ministers and heads of delegations and also very many bilateral meetings. These all add to the cooperation which is required to meet the challenges that we face.
A lot has changed since 2003 when the Ministers last met at the Bali Conference. The push factors have abated in some areas but increased in others. Abated, for example, in Iraq, but increased in Afghanistan, in the Afghanistan/Pakistan border area, and also in Sri Lanka. We also know that the people smugglers themselves are much more adept and have better resources, access to better financing, better equipment and have become much better at avoiding detection and disruption. So the challenge for greater cooperation is also there.
And of course Hassan, it has been my great pleasure as Foreign Minister of Australia, to again be working closely with you.
One of the good things from Australia's point of view about the Bali Process is that Australia and Indonesia are the co-chairs. We are part of the steering group. It is another reflection of the strength of the bilateral relationship between Australia and Indonesia. Thanks Hassan.
QUESTION: My colleague on my right here is a Myanmar national working for BBC London. So from his story I just start to understand how complicated is this Rohingya boatpeople. So how does this Conference address this problem and what is the solution for the future?
WIRAJUDA: Irregular movements of the Rohingya people through our regions are part of the overall problems that the region is facing. Meaning that, in addition to Rohingyas, we have also irregular movements of Tamils, people from Afghanistan, but also smaller a number from Iran and Iraq. In addition, at least in Indonesia, we have a case of some 60 Chinese nationals who are victims of smuggling of peoples and trafficking in persons. In other words, the problem of Rohingya is only one of the many problems that countries in the region are facing. And like any other cases of irregular movement, certainly the patterns for solutions more or less remain the same, namely that the solution must be comprehensive, involving countries of origin, in this case Myanmar and Bangladesh, but countries of transits such as Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia. Malaysia being in this case also a country of destination.
Comprehensive in the sense that not only that we have - we countries in the region - have to deal with the phenomena of irregular peoples' presence in our territories, but also in the case of standard processes for those who opted for voluntary repatriation, which is certainly something that is true regional cooperation, with the support of international organisations such as UNHCR and IOM who will repatriate them to their countries of origin. But to those who have strong reason to be categorised as refugees of course, UNHCR, as the competent agency will process them for resettlement to the third countries.
But of course knowing that many of them are victims through the crimes of people smuggling, humanitarian assistance should be given, should be extended to them. That is what Indonesia has been doing. But nonetheless as part of the comprehensive approach to solve these problems we discussed how to address the root causes. In particular, on how to improve the socio-economic conditions in their country of origins. I should mention that my colleague Foreign Minister Stephen Smith has this morning announced that Australia would contribute some $3 million. As co-chair, I do appreciate Australia's contribution. But I believe also UNHCR, UNESCAP and many other countries are willing to address the root causes.
That is also more or less the case of other groups, depending on the nature of the problems, the push factors that force them to leave their countries. For example, certainly on Afghanistan, at this regional meeting you cannot do much on how to solve the military conflict in Afghanistan which is beyond the mandate of the Bali Process.
SMITH: I might just add to that. In the course of the day we had informal discussions about the Rohingya issue with representatives from Australia, Indonesia, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, the International Organization for Migration, and the relevant countries - source countries, transit countries and destination countries, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia. And I think the first point to make is that those discussions were very good discussions. There is a view that this is a problem which impacts on more than one country, or more than one nation. Secondly, there is a very clear willingness on the part of participants to either agree to try and deal with them as a region, or a commitment to deal with the matter bilaterally, including not just with the other nation states affected but also with, for example, the UNHCR or International Organization for Migration.
Other nation states also take the view that this is a regional problem and as members of the region, if we can assist we should. So in Australia's case, whilst we are not impacted adversely by the movement of the Rohingyas, we do understand this is a difficulty for our colleagues, which is why today I have announced Australia will contribute a further $3 million for the Rohingya people in Myanmar delivered through international NGOs and UN agencies to assist their circumstances. This follows on over the last 12 months or so contributions that Australia has made of about $8 million, including $4 million to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees to assist in the processing of Rohingyas in transit or destination countries. So it's a contribution that we make because we hope it will assist and part of that contribution we hope will get to, what Foreign Minister Wirajuda has described as, the root cause.
There is always a root cause which is a push factor which causes people to be displaced or to move. Often that can be economic circumstances, often it can be security circumstances. So I was encouraged I would have to say by the discussions that were held. And whilst of course it is a matter for Myanmar to speak for itself, there is a very clear indication on the part of Myanmar that it was willing to sit down with transit or destination countries, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia and Bangladesh, and also willing to sit down with the UNHCR to seek to try and help resolve some of these issues.
So whilst it's a difficult problem and there have been criticisms in the past, I was frankly encouraged by the approach of the regional colleagues and their commitment to sit down either bilaterally or regionally or with the relevant international organisations, the IOM or the UNHCR, to seek to address the issues.
QUESTION: There are reports coming in just now of a boat that was found off Ashmore Reef this afternoon with up to 50 people on it. Is that evidence of a continuing inability of both of these Governments to deal with this serious problem? And Minister Wirajuda, when do you expect to see the legislation that was promised by President Yudhoyono last year making people smuggling a criminal offence?
SMITH: I'll go first. Can I firstly say, my colleague Bob Debus, the Minister for Home Affairs is about to make an announcement on the detail of that arrival. So I won't go to the detail of it. In accordance with our practice, I will leave that to him as the responsible Minister. But in the very near future he is proposing to make an announcement about the detail of that.
Suffice for me to say that over the last 12 month period, from Australia's perspective, we have seen about a dozen boat arrivals carrying some 400 unlawful arrivals. Both in the current international context and in historical context, this might be regarded as a modest or a small amount because, for example, in 2002-2003, the arrivals were not in the 400s, but in the 4 or 6,000s.
Currently, internationally, for example, our colleagues in Italy deal with 30,000 arrivals on an annual basis. Having said that, let me make this point. The arrivals which have occurred in the last 12 months have made it very clear to Australia that this problem is ongoing. It is a problem which the Government is very seriously addressing. It is one of the reasons why we were very keen, together with Indonesia, to see the calling of the Bali Ministerial Conference. It's why not only are our border protection assets, both naval and air, consistent with what they were under the previous Government, they have also been enhanced. It also does reflect our very keen and acute appreciation of the additional push factors that we now see, particularly from Afghanistan, from Sri Lanka and potentially from the Afghanistan/Pakistan border area.
And part of our border protection is aimed at seeking to ensure that boats don't actually arrive at the mainland. The bulk of boats of the 12 that I have referred to have either been intercepted on the high seas at or near Ashmore Reef generally or Christmas Island. When they are intercepted on the high seas they are taken to Christmas Island for processing in a way which under Australian migration laws is different than if they had arrived at the mainland.
So far as your second question, which is more directed to Minister Wirajuda than me, about legislation to enter into domestic law criminal offences against people trafficking or people smuggling. One of the good things which has come out of the Bali Process has been that, since the formation of the process, somewhere up to 20 odd countries have either introduced legislation or are contemplating legislation to do precisely that. In Indonesia's case, we work very, very closely with Indonesia to seek to deal with this matter bilaterally and regionally. And Indonesia has made it clear that it is in the process of contemplating and pursuing legislation in this area. And we welcome that.
But we welcome very much the fact that we have very close cooperation with Indonesia not just in terms of information sharing or best practice, but also importantly in the disruption activities that we engage in. And that is a very important part of our efforts to combat people smuggling and unlawful human trafficking of movement towards Australia.
WIRAJUDA: Earlier this year, on behalf of the Indonesian Government, I appeared before our Parliament in the process of ratification of two international instruments. Namely the Conventions in Transnational Crimes and ratification of the Conventions on People Smuggling. (Inaudible)...through the amendments of our criminal law, people smuggling is already criminalised. In fact, in many cases in our courts, people smuggling and trafficking in persons are already part of our criminal systems that have been used by our courts to punish the perpetrators of these heinous crimes. On the ratification itself, which is meant to reinforce our norms with regard to people smuggling, transnational crimes as our Parliament has (inaudible) earlier this year, we hope that the final process will be completed very soon.
QUESTION: Question for both Ministers. Are you confident that by next winter when the annual sailing season for the Rohingya, by the time next winter comes, has the Bali Process done enough to stop the next wave of Rohingya?
SMITH: I think the highest I would put it is that the Ministerial meeting that we have had has focussed the minds of the source, transit and receiving countries very acutely on that problem. It has also been raised as a regional problem in which other regional countries and partners either need to be or are interested in. It is an acute problem. And I don't think anyone is under any illusion that this is a problem which can be solved overnight or in one season.
WIRAJUDA: This Conference, we have agreed to task the Ad-Hoc Group to meet - involving countries of origin, transit and destination - so it would be more focussed to address cases like the irregular movement of the Rohingya people. Of course we cannot be certain when we will be able to resolve the case. But if past experience can be a good lesson, recalling that from the 2003 Bali Regional Ministerial Conference, we (inaudible) stop the inflows of irregular migrants, we were able to send those irregular migrants back to their country of origins. For example, I was in Bali here meeting with the Foreign Minister of Australia, but also with the Minister of Justice of Afghanistan. We agreed to resolve the case of 300 Afghans who are here in the country of transit, in Indonesia, working closely with IOM (inaudible) and we were successful in that. So, in other words, we have every reason to be confident that we will be able to (inaudible).
QUESTION: Is Indonesia prepared to, as a destination country, to trigger the so-called ad-hoc working group on the Rohingya issue?
WIRAJUDA: Actually Indonesia is a country of transit in this regard. From our initial verification process, we learned that those almost 400 Rohingyas who landed on our shores that are in the province of Aceh their intention is to go to Malaysia. Certainly we will invite Malaysia, in addition to Thailand, Myanmar and Bangladesh to join the Ad-Hoc Group to discuss the specific issue. As for different cases, that will have a different composition of membership of the Ad-Hoc Group. But it is meant to focus on specific cases.
QUESTION: You identified the importance of addressing root causes in countries of origin. What is the root cause of why the Rohingya are fleeing Myanmar?
WIRAJUDA: It is a combination of causes. We learned from our discussions at the informal meeting this morning that the socio-economic conditions were the prime cause or reason for the Rohingya people, or to use Myanmar's terms, the Bengalese. And of course the Myanmar representative denied that they left the country because of the humanitarian, rather human rights violations. So a mix of causes.
The easiest one to (inaudible) if Myanmar's Government is willing to cooperate with the international community is to address the socio-economic conditions as the prime cause for the Rohingya people to leave. I believe there is a lot of goodwill on the part of the countries in the region, in fact, the international community and international organisations such as the UNHCR and IOM to work together. So, there is every indication that the Myanmar Government seem to be open and willing to work with the international community.
SMITH: I would agree with Foreign Minister Wirajuda's comment that there is a combination of causes - socio-economic and humanitarian circumstances. Our analysis is reflected by contributions that we have made, including the ones that I have announced today. I also met today bilaterally with the Vice Minister for Home Affairs and Police Chief from Myanmar. That, in the recent period, is frankly unusual for Australia. Our approach has been, given Australia's commitment to democracy, the rule of law and human rights in Myanmar, to meet with Myanmar counterparts in the margins of ASEAN or in the margins of the United Nations.
I was very happy to meet with the Vice Minister and Police Chief today in the context of the Bali Process because I regard this as a very important regional process. And secondly, it's quite clear that the Rohingyas problem is a problem for the region. Australia has its own difficulty in terms of human smuggling and we look to our colleagues in the region to assist and we feel an obligation to assist even though the problem itself does not directly impact adversely on Australia.
There is also within the Australian community a keen interest in the state of affairs in Myanmar, including in northern Rakhine State.
QUESTION: (in Indonesian)
WIRAJUDA: (in Indonesian)
SMITH: Let me just make a comment which I think goes some way to responding. One of the points I made earlier was that one of the changes that we have confronted in recent times has been the greater sophistication of the people smugglers, greater resources, different and better techniques. And this has been difficult for our operational agencies to confront. It's quite clear that underneath that is a greater access to funds and financing, a greater, if you like, internationalisation or globalisation of the people smuggling gangs. And this is clearly one of the reasons why it has become more difficult to confront because the resources, the techniques and the sophistication of evasion of disruption techniques is much better from their perspective and much more difficult from our perspective than it was say in 2002-2003 when we last met at the Ministerial Conference. Thank you.
QUESTION: My question is to Minister Stephen Smith. You announced today the humanitarian aid, $3.2 million, to the Rohingya people. But the Myanmar government never recognised the Rohingya. How do you make sure that your aid money actually reaches the people that you intended? The other thing is that one of the (inaudible). Has it come up in your meetings with the Myanmar representative about that recognition issue and what kind of answer did you get?
SMITH: Well in terms of the meeting I had with the Vice Minister and Police Chief, I think it is true to say that Australia put to Myanmar all of the human rights, democratic and rule of law issues that we have in the past. I think it is true to say that the response I got from the police chief was along the lines you have described, which is the traditional approach of Myanmar: to not accept the notion of citizenship.
In terms of the delivery of our humanitarian assistance to the Rohingya people, we deliver that through international or national NGOs, or in Australia's case, for example, through CARE Australia which has delivery mechanisms on the ground, or through the World Food Program, again, which has delivery mechanisms on the ground or through UN agencies, including in a different context the UNHCR for assessment purposes. Working through the international NGOs and international agencies, maximises the prospects and our confidence that the aid is delivered to the people who are most in need of it.
[ENDS]
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